T-Mac "Anybody can win a championship, Everybody can't get in the hall of fame"

Why are all of you shying away from actually comparing the rosters and how the rest of the team performed?
People are trying to say that DeClerkq, Luther Head, Juwan Howard, Alston, Bobby Jackson etc were on the same level as Maxwell, Smith, Elie, Horry, Sampson etc?

And do you really buy that "did better without him" narrative, completely disregarding that everyone matured and that was the reason for them advancing?
You really trying to say that from a basketball standpoint, McGrady was a net negative in playoffs?

I see all of these "McGrady's rosters weren't that bad, Dream carried his team" etc, but none of you have the balls to actually post the rosters and numbers of these players. Or how their matchups performed (Utah bigs vs Yao etc).

I posted some of the brutal playoff averages for Jackson, Brooks etc, yet I haven't seen a single reply somehow.

 

It's not up to us to waste our time tracking down rosters and their advanced metrics. That's the job of those delusional enough into thinking that T-Mac is such a great player and it's somehow not his fault that he has AN ENTIRE CAREER of first round losses when he is leading his team. I have already pointed out this STATISTICAL FACT and if you want to argue something that was proven true AGAIN AND AGAIN across THREE FRANCHISES, well now... that's up to you. You want comparisons, go find them and report them yourselves. I am not going to waste time researching what I already know, that T-Mac was a perennial loser who quit on all the teams he was supposed to lead.

 

Chris Paul had two Allstar big men, DeAndre being a borderline Allstar. Bunch of good to elite shooters.

perpetual 2nd round exit

 

Last time I checked, 2nd round is further than 1st round.

 

yeah, yeah, yeah, you get a Trophy when you win the Conference and the Finals.

2nd and 3rd round (unless you win that round) - no ring and no trophy

 

So you don't want to have an honest debate and are clinging to hot takes without any substance, blatantly disregarding context and the actual rosters in a TEAM sport.
This is First Take level, it's horrible how little some of you know about basketball.

 

This is like the silliest counter argument that could have been made.

 

You're reducing a team sport where 20+ players are matched up against each other to ONE player (it's all on McGrady) and talk about silly arguments?
Do you even see how little sense you make?

 

What a dumb response. Let me spell it out for you plain and simple. T-Mac has never lead a team beyond the FIRST ROUND. This is a STATISTICAL FACT. This trend has also held true across THREE FRANCHISES and OVER A DECADE, each with different ownership, management, and coaching. That is yet another irrefutable fact. This is not without substance. It is not even up for debate. On the other side, you cannot make that same factual statement about ANY OTHER SUPERSTAR and their long careers.

If you want to fantasize this in some sort of delusional debate about it, then it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to go out and compile the evidence, otherwise why should any of us take you seriously? Me personally, I am not interested in arguing "What-If's" for one of the biggest losers in NBA history. Again, if you want to, go find the evidence.

 

You are being silly when it comes to one topic..... there is no discussion possible, when was the last time you had a positive remark or comment about that Tracy player?

You are one of the most negative ones around here. For years now. Not just McGradyesque threads.

Accumulation of observations here. You seem to feed off negative energy.

 

Why the hell should I be positive when it comes to trash like T-Mac?

You must be confusing me for someone else then as I am one of the most hopeful, optimistic posters around when it comes to the Rockets. I am not however, positive or tolerant of people who quit/trash my Rockets. I will also not waste time trying to be polite to those same people. Go ahead and look through my post history. I have nothing to hide. I am almost always cheering and positive when I DO post in game threads. I approach each new season and most trade with a hopeful outlook. You want to see negative, take a look at individuals like DD, swyyyguy, or bbholic.

 

I did multiple times and posted numbers of his teammates and opponents in matchups over multiple playoff series. I still haven't received an answer from the likes of you. I did this in a number of threads over the years, and NEVER received an honest reply that would try to actually debate the supporting cast and their performances.

Just tell me: Why do people make hundreds of pages on trade ideas to provide Harden with a supporting cast, mentioning the great job teams like the Spurs and GSW do to complement their stars,, but when it comes to McGrady, you guys suddenly don't mention how any teammate performed and say everything is on a single guy.

You don't see how hypocritcal that is?

It's truly astounding how people lose their complete ability to think in any kind of logical manner once emotions get involved. You guys would look like utter morons in a real life basketball discussion with experts and coaches, I simply can't believe how any person would think a player posting the best numbers on a team is responsible for the loss, even when multiple teammates were shooting below 30% or sometimes even below 10% over an entire series.


But I know I'll never get an honest answer here, as you guys don't want to actually debate basketball and what leads to losses or victories, as long as it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

Link me to them. I just see you going back and forth with Tinman and always being on the loser's side. Show me entire roster comparisons throughout each superstar's career where you can legitimately argue that it's always T-Mac's team and never himself. Show me comparisons to their basic and advanced metrics that it's not their fault T-Mac can't lead them out of the first round. I just see you making that claim, but have yet to see any evidence to back it up.

We want to surround Harden with a supporting cast to WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP, not get past the first damn round. If you can't understand that, then it's not my problem.

 

Maybe because you can't comprehend the important aspects of basketball in even the tiniest way and are on the "IT'S ALL ON THE STAR" side, it's the only way you'd even begin to think anyone is losing a debate vs tinman.

So you only start to assemble a roster when the team is already close to contending? You realize they only came this far because the roster is good? It starts from the bottom, but somehow you can't grasp one of the easiest aspects of sports.

So I provided multiple rosters and numbers over the years and some even in this thread. Yet you, who doesn't even want to address the most basic stats and STILL hasn't mentioned a single teammate playoff failure out of the dozens during his tenures, want me to assemble a huge data sample of every star in NBA history with basic and advanced metrics?

Do you even realize how dumb that is? Great way of shying away from an honest discussion by giving me a task that would take up a part-time job.
Done with this nonsense, you guys are brutal.

 

Last response to you until you can actually come up with all the evidence you claim of providing.

 

For the Record
I was never a TMac fan
I never liked the TMac for Francis/Cuttino trade
I always said the end result was lateral as hell
I still say the Trade was similar to the Barkley trade in that it was an attempt at a quick fix

TMac is talented
But in the end I always saw him as Heartless in a bad way

Rocket River

 

Much better than first round exits and 20 playoff games

 

He is a die hard McGrady fan
Search his post history
Tmac could run over a cat and it's the cats fault

 

McGrady even said that it was on him, remember? Basketball is a team sport true, but its driven by superstars and those are the guys who get held responsible at the end of the day. That's way the NBA has always been. You can crap on the rosters or supporting cast as much as you like but the reality is that Tmac's supporting casts were suited up next to him when they took 3-1 and 2-0 series leads, when you blow series leads like that its more than just the supporting cast. It means you choked, it means you failed as a leader. Tmac was a failure in those aspects, he lacked the mental fortitude to get it done and no amount of mental gymnastics is going to change that.

 

It was the right move at the time, but now in retrospect
we wasted Yao Ming's best years
Other teams got better and won championships
And I bet you Clutchfans would be better too