Trump Voters: time to admit that you've been duped

You're missing the point. American politics is in serious trouble right now. The entire narrative since Nov 9th is to endlessly talk about how bad Trump is. We all get that. Seriously, we all do. Trump continues to treat the Presidency as a Reality TV show which I am very critical of. In order for his Reality TV show to work, it needs an audience. And it has a huge audience. He thrives on literally all of the attention on him. He's not Obama. He has no desire to be 'presidential' or care about being popular. He doesnt care who he pisses off. Provided he keeps his hands clean, he will be our President for the next 4 years. He doesnt care about the Democrat party. He doesnt care about the Republican party.

Trump is not an evil person. He's just a really bad choice for president if one wants anything to get done. My personal position is that I would rather a President who gets nothing done than one who will enact bad legislation that continues to hammer away and destroy the middle class and small business.

The question is not why Trump beat Hillary. If one can not understand why, they are either too dense or too wrapped up in their narrow minded personal beliefs. 18 months ago, very very few people thought Trump stood a chance to win the nomination, much less the Presidency. If the Democrats go in at this in 3 years with the same arrogant narrowminded mindset, they very well could lose to Trump again.

The fact is both parties are in severe disarray. This is why we ended up with two terrible choices. And the fact nobody is talking about this bothers me. Yes, both sides accuse each other of being awful, but neither side will admit they are no different than the other. The Republicans are so fractured with their factions. Democrats are losing elections left and right. Both parties are consumed with self preservation, self interest and greed and don't give a **** about the people.

But hey, what do I know. Who really cares who runs for president as long as my team wins, right?

 

While all politicians will spin, hide uncomfortable truths, or sometimes blatantly lie, Trump takes it to a different level. I can't deny that Clinton had some shadiness, as did her husband, as did some other past Presidents, but character-wise Trump is clearly no better and (in my view) is quite a bit worse. He's also a megalomaniac and dangerously unstable. He should not be in the position he is in, with the influence he has.

If conservatives are willing to look past his considerable flaws and the fact that he's turned the executive branch into a circus because him getting conservative laws passed (though he's been totally ineffectual on health care) or having a far-right judge on the Supreme Court makes it all worth it, what else can be said? I just hope that Republicans find someone better for their 2020 nominee and they don't give this man another chance at 4 years. That's the important thing to me, not trying to get them to retroactively wish they voted for Clinton.

 

Actually life is really good right now for me. Nah bro, I am not angry, I am just more honest now. I don't try to sugar coat things. I am being real with you.

You're a stupid person. I hate to tell you that. But it is true. I mean, you have a brain and are capable of logic, but your logic is twisted. You have an average IQ - but stupid in a you-believe-in-stupid-things.

The very idea that Trump is doing nothing and is harmless demonstrates how stupid you are. Trump is not evil - sure he is not. I agree there. But then neither is Putin, Kim Jong 1-3, and the Ayatollah. In fact, you can say that no despot is evil. Just delusional and power crazy. Trump is subverting sacred American institutions and all you can do is say, "Hey Clinton would have been worse because she is a democrat and I am stupid disingenuous to admit my bias"

Wake up broh! Really, wake up! I have wasted time reading your posts, as well as the idiot right-wing train on here for a while. Why are you guys on here if you can't even contemplate the other side?j

 

Serious. I strongly suggest you seek some help. I dont think i've seen anyone on here consistently angry about issues. Its probably best I stop replying to you until you become more civil and sort out whatever issues you have going on. You're taking this way too personal.

 

1. The irony is that Obama (and likely Hillary) were more fighters for the [white] middle class and small business than Trump will ever be. Most Republican policies are snake oil and make rich people richer. If you don't agree, you need to look at the policies closer.
2. I won't agree with Sweet Lou that you're dumb. But I do think Trump supporters are ignorant and have ignorant bias. It's a recurring pattern throughout history that when a nation begins to have difficulties, one party/person will rile up the group that is suffering the most and push a strong rhetoric of fear and anger. I guarantee you more liberals were willing to give Trump a chance than conservatives were willing to give Hillary a chance.
   
   Why do you think jobs are leaving America? It's capitalism, big corporations, lack of education/skill training, and laziness/feeling of entitlement. If you want jobs, fight big corp and fight for more education/skill training. The rhetoric wants you to believe immigrants and Muslims are nasty baddies, animals taking your jobs. But instead, the rhetoric has turned Trump supporters into the nasty, hateful animals. The only question, will they be introspective and humble enough to see how far from the 'party of values' they have gone? I did not grow up with a Republican party like the one today. The current one is so much more disgusting and downright lacking in integrity than any time in my life.
   

Trump is going to go down as one of the worst Presidents in history. If you look at pundit analysis (both sides) of Russia's blatant intervention in our voting system, they were candid about it. They wanted to undermine the faith the American people have in their voting system and their government. Trump will affect how Americans see the government and democracy for decades. Honestly, he will make it so America will probably be blue for decades as well. The impact it has had on the youth is clear and young age groups were by far majority blue. Meanwhile countries around the world are moving away from perceiving the US as a dependable world leader. The US is much weaker, much more divided, and much more ignorant with this POTUS on board.

So... after all that... how can you still believe Trump is a better choice than Hillary? Your bias runs too deep friend, because I can't explain any other reason why your mind is so clouded (and this goes for the other right wing lifers, bobby, cml, bigt, RL, etc.)

 

I know what Republicans are. And I dont disagree with you. Republicans dont hide the fact they are pro-wealthy. Where we disagree is I feel the Democrats just hide it. They are bought and paid by Wall Street just like the Republicans.

You can claim Obama and Hillary fought more for the middle class. But the fact is the middle class is continuously swiftly eroding away and the policies of the left hurt the middle class more than anyone. Obama did very little to help the middle class.

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I will only speak for myself on this subject.

Hillary would be an effective President. I disliked many of Hillarys positions, much more so than I did Obama.

The point is, choosing between two terrible candidates, I am going to choose the one who is the least effective. Just because Trump fits the bill doesn't mean I support what Trump is doing. I just support him being ineffective over an effective candidate like Hillary who I disagree with.

And with the way Republicans are these days, I am not so sure I would want Pence over Trump.

I will say it again, be happy Trump is ineffective.

 

LOL. I mean, there's no greater definition of tool.

 

Oh, no he's not. His posts are coherent and logical. You just don't like his criticism of you. You can disagree with him without stating this ludicrous "you need some help"- that's typically the weakest argument you can come up with. And he's not being un-civil. He's not ranting and raving. How about trying to address his points rather than taking the easy way out?

 

I will only speak for myself on this subject.

Hillary would be an effective President. I disliked many of Hillarys positions, much more so than I did Obama.

The point is, choosing between two terrible candidates, I am going to choose the one who is the least effective. Just because Trump fits the bill doesn't mean I support what Trump is doing. I just support him being ineffective over an effective candidate like Hillary who I disagree with.

And with the way Republicans are these days, I am not so sure I would want Pence over Trump.

I will say it again, be happy Trump is ineffective.[/QUOTE]

Be happy Trump is ineffective.

That's really ****ed-up thinking. Enjoy.

 

Why would any Trump supporter feel duped?

If we have so many conservative posters here who exclaim, "I don't defend Trump!" while doing nothing but defend Trump, then can you imagine how deluded/stubborn actual Trump supporters would be? They wouldn't feel duped in a million years.

 

Maybe he is doing exactly what they want him to do . . . . .

Rocket River

 

There's a Trump quote for everything. He's playing 5D Chess.

 

Reading this in Trump's voice.

LOL

 

The most common misconception of what presidents do on their day to day tasks is to push ideological agendas when reality their biggest concern is managing the world's largest bureaucracy and military while being the head of state representative. That requires competence. Hence why I would be more at ease with someone like Pence who I oppose ideologically rather ademently.

He's right in the sense that you really believe in this false equivalency notion so ademently. It makes sense since you are a conservative and objectively, the GOP is far less effective at governing but pride just refused you to admit it. It's evident in the fact that you moved your goal post from the past 5 years from "Conservatives are objectively better" to " ALL THE SAME!".

 

It's not the case that Trump hasn't accomplished anything. Trump has at least accomplished something that is unique and long lasting - the degradation of society and the office of the Presidency.

The DEM should only be looking at candidate against Trump in 3 years and doing NOTHING else is not a smart strategy. The strategy should be more than that. Trump has an abysmal approval rating and is historically the worse ever (it's fact) and that has accomplished many things both short and long term. The conservative agenda is at a halt and he is likely going to lose in 4 years if that continue.

American politic is worse now because it's completely a joke. It's not just a reality show, it's make up reality with outright lies coming from the WH. Plus, you have as President someone that doesn't know anything. Clinton as President at minimum isn't a joke - she is extremely knowledgeable and she isn't anywhere close to the pathological liar Trump is.

We call a spade a spade. You are advocating turning the other way and let it be. If you allow things that are horrible to be, you are responsible for it. What he gain personally (if that is even true) isn't the point. The point is there are standards that you uphold and you fight for it. Conflict of interest as an example - you are saying we should just let that be. No, we have a higher standard and we should hold onto it. Decency is another example - you are saying we should just let that be. Again no, we have a higher standard and we should hold onto it. Basic competence as head of state is yet another example. It's not normal and allowing it to be has very long term consequences.

As for middle class and small busn, different of opinion. For me, Clinton would do good for both middle class, small busn and the poor vs the conservative agenda. Whatever Trump is, he's just allowing the conservative agenda to take place.

Actually, it's likely that if there is exactly a Clinton vs Trump in 3 years, Clinton would win. But the point is taken that a better candidate is needed and that's clearly understood.

There is a difference between the sides. There is no perfect is a better position than they are both the same horrible. That's how extreme horrible get power. But you already said that Trump as of right now is better than Clinton, while saying Trump is a reality show. You aren't equating them even though you saying you are. Your position is reality show is still better because Trump's agenda is more agreeable to you. Since you continue to play the both as the same horrible game, I'm going to guess that's how you continue to justify (being dishonest to yourself) Trump, the reality show, to be a better POTUS.

 

OMG.. so now the Trump fans are making their case still that Hillary would have enacted some evil dark agenda of legislation that would have passed with flying colors so it's better to have said "I voted for Trump" even though he's likely about to dismantle our entire rule of law to either get himself impeached or exonerate himself in the Russian investigation. This is just one thing he's going to do along with a slew of others he's already done to dismantle our government and has at the very least has exposed ways for a hostile foreign power and an authoritarian to work together to take over our country.

But let's talk about what Clinton would or wouldn't have done since it's sooo incredibly bad-

-helped stabilized insurance markets (health care likely wouldn't be taking 99% of the time of legislators)
-sanctions on Russia would have passed much earlier.
-Hillary and co would have made a show of force with EU and NATO allies to ensure Putin knows the world has him outnumbered if he tries to invade more Baltic states or rig elections.
-stimulus package would be proposed much like with Obama, but I think with still a majority of Republicans in the Senate, it would be go nowhere.
-GOP leaders would try to launch a series of investigations about Hillarys emails and maybe even try to go again after Benghazi because .... Benghazi.
-Possible overturn Citizens United (anyone actually think that's a bad thing?)
-work on legislation that would make college more affordable
-New trade deals that likely are hard to get done. Possibly hurt our relationship a bit more with China.
- and that's probably it. A lot of spending yes, but stability otherwise with likely a very boring 4 years given the fact that she'd likely have at least a Republican led Senate for all 4 years who would obstruct what they could.

And government would again be boring and we could go about living our lives without having to worry that our idiot commander in chief wasn't going to nuke the world overnight because he is insane.

 

So... lets just look at Trump's past week of "failures/accomplishments"

Gave and offensively political speech at Boy Scouts of America, which brought down enough criticism and embarrassment on the non-political organization that the CEO of the BSA was required to apologize.

Gave an offensive speech that encouraged police brutality that offended and embarrassed America's police that many police chiefs and departments spoke out against the very idea that they would engage in what he was encouraging.

Tweeted that transsexuals would no longer be allowed to serve in America's armed forces... a move done without the knowledge of the Pentagon and armed forces leadership... which the armed forces leadership were forced to say they weren't following any such directive via a tweet.

After multiple attempts to push fellow republicans to pass a repeal of the ACA which would cause many millions to lose health care coverage and increase premiums (including threatening one senator's state if she didn't support him), he then further embarrasses the republican party and the republican majority Senate by insulting them and saying they should change the voting rules in order for him to win (never mind they were already using that same voting rule he was pushing, hence it would not have made a difference).

His administration showed it was in crisis when two key appointees "quit" including his Chief of Staff in a spat with his new Communications Director. Oh, and that same Comms Drector gave an interview with the press claiming the President's chief adviser fellates himself (using more obscene language).

He continues to try to get his Attorney General to resign because the AG didn't want to break the law and support the president and so recused himself. So it appears the president will move him to another position in order to name a new AG that will then fire the independent counsel investigating the president n emoluments, collusion and obstruction of justice charges.

And in a joint conference with the PM of Lebanon he further demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge of foreign affairs by not knowing who Hezbollah is by saying its a menace to Lebanon (when Hezbollah is actually a part of the government of Lebanon).

One "accomplishment" happened though... congress snuck in $1.6 billion to help fund the $20+ billion wall that Trump wants to build along the border with Mexico.

So yes, Trump has failed to pass significant legislation, he "succeeded" at embarrassing, insulting, offending and weakening the very office of the President in the eyes of Americans and people worldwide. And it is highly doubtful any of the above would have happened under any other possible president including Hillary Clinton.

 

Other than people who still respond to this clown?

I mean if there's anything dumber than expecting anything other than the worst most embarrassing shambles from Trump and his distrastrous reign, it's expecting his dull/dishonorable/dead end enablers to admit error and give anybody any type of satisfaction with even a cursory show of online remorse.

That's the point of a clown whose job is to aggravate you

 

Given the current Republican Congress, I can not see how Hillary would have been effective, at least on advancing a domestic agenda.

Trump's biggest domestic accomplishment to date is his Supreme Court nomination. That's a big get. But given that the Republicans control the Presidency and both houses of Congress, they should have done way more.

If Hillary had been elected, I suspect that she would have nothing domestically to show for her first 100 days in office. Her Supreme Court nomination might still be in committee.