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Fact Check: If you like your plan, if you like your doctor

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by justtxyank, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    Everyone by now knows this famous quote from Obama, the lie of the century.

    However, is it a lie? I'm here to deliver a gut punch to the theory.

    The Affordable Care was signed into law on March 23, 2010 with the promise that if you liked your current plan you could keep it. Since then, most people are no longer under their old plan and the statement is routinely put out as a lie by Obama. However, notice that key word? Maybe you missed it. "Most"

    If you had a plan that was in place when the ACA was passed you were absolutely allowed to keep it. (as long as the insurance company still sells insurance clearly) In fact, many people do still have their plans under two provisions of the ACA:

    Grandfathered
    This is the most direct version of "If you like your plan..." Basically if you had a plan that was in force when ACA was passed and you've made no changes to it, you are still allowed to have it to this day without being forced to comply with ACA guidelines and there is no penalty for that. It is true in the individual space and the employer sponsored insurance space. Simple rule: had a plan you liked, made NO changes, keep your plan. No problem.

    Grandmothered
    This is a little trickier to understand. Basically after ACA went into law, a lot of companies at their renewals made changes to their plans but not to ACA plans. (ACA plans wouldn't come into effect for a few years after the law was actually passed) Even though they were told "If you make changes you will lose your current granfathered status" they still made the changes to save money. So what the government did (Under Obama) was create a process called "transitional relief" that allowed those plans who made changes AFTER 2010 (so no longer "like your plan, keep it" folks) This process allowed you to keep even this plan that took advantage of some of the ACA benefits and was saving you money while still being technically a non-ACA plan. This transitional relief has been continued every year since it was first established even though it was supposed to sunset a few years ago now. The Obama administration extended it every year.

    So, with two robust provisions to allow you to keep your plan, why do so many people say they lost the plans they loved?

    Coverage through an employer
    Sometime after the 2010 law was passed, your employer made changes to the plan to save money. Sometime after 2012 when the last transitional relief plans were sold, your employer VOLUNTARILY switched to ACA plans because of either cost savings or to get the better benefits. The ACA didn't force you off of your plan, your employer did. There are still MANY employer plans that are either grandfathered or grandmothered today. If you work for a large employer you are probably a self funded plan and you are exempt from most of the ACA mandates to begin with.

    Individual Coverage
    This is the one where most people get upset. You purchased coverage for yourself/family through a broker or online and you loved your old plan. You miss your old plan. So who took it away? In most cases, you did. After ACA was passed the insurance company offered you a renewal that included the option to continue your grandfathered plan or switch to an ACA plan. Right out of the gates the ACA plans looked like better benefits for same price because of the new total out of pocket feature, the free preventive care, etc. If you were someone who wasn't in perfect shape and health and still approved for an old plan you were probably paying a high rate penalty and the ACA offered you price reduction. Regardless, in the majority of cases, the reason you don't have THAT plan any more is because you voluntarily chose to jump to ACA. It's also true that in the small window between 2010 and 2012 before ACA plans took over, most insurance companies allowed you to buy a plan that they then kept through transitional relief rules as well. (United Healthcare for example)

    Now, it's not always true that you got rid of the plan yourself. If you had a grandfathered or grandmothered individual plan with United Healthcare, you lost it on January 1 this year by no choice of your own when United decided they no longer wanted to be in the individual marketplace. However, before you go beating up the ACA for that, here's an interesting tidbit. Prior to ACA, United Healthcare, through their arm Golden Rule, was barely a player in the individual marketplace. They started selling plans BIG TIME after 2010 because they saw a market. So chances are (in most states anyway) that if you had a United plan that was cancelled January 1 this year as an individual you didn't get it until after ACA was passed anyway.

    This year (July) Humana did the same thing, cancelling all individual plans. They were bigger players in some states, Texas being one of them.

    So, long story short:
    If you liked your plan and didn't get to keep your plan, in the VAST majority of cases it's not because the ACA took it away from you, it is because either the company you worked for OR you yourself chose to give up that plan for cost savings or benefit enhancement somewhere along the way.
     
  2. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    My sister (self employed) liked her plan. Her plan went away. She had to get a new plan. She chose a new plan, but found her doctor wasn't on it even though the website said he was. She chose to go to a more expensive plan that he was on.
     
  3. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    I'm not sure how to respond bobrek lol.
     
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  4. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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  5. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    I can only speak for myself. I do help with health insurances for some self-employed folks and they did have a choice to keep their exact old plan or move to new plan. The old plans were no longer offered, but you can keep it. Once you move away from it, you cannot go back.
     
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  6. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Just an anecdote, not arguing with you. :)

    To digress, I found it shocking that COBRA is currently around $800/month cheaper than the marketplace. In the old days, COBRA was ridiculously more expensive and it was something that oftentimes wasn't even considered. To maintain my same coverage for my wife and I costs around $1400/month. If I were to get a similar plan in the Minnesota market, it would cost about $28,000/year.
     
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  7. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    What does 1400/month plan get you? I am curious.
     
  8. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    $35 copay, 80/20 in-network, $750 individual deductible, $5500 out of pocket maximum for each of us. Also includes Delta Dental and VSP for eye care.

    EDIT - Was paying about $160/month and my company picked up the rest prior to my retirement.
     
  9. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    As someone that was on COBRA before ACA was passed (and then running out of COBRA) I can tell you it was still cheaper under COBRA than it was when they were exhausted and I had to my insurance for me, my family including my daughter with a PEC requiring her to be covered under Texas State High Risk Pool at $500/month for her alone for basic medical coverage (dental, vision were both possible under the family coverage).
     
  10. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    I was talking the real old days, before anyone had ever heard of Obama. :)
     
  11. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Looks great for 160/month.
     
  12. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    I had no complaints. Wish I had the option to keep it after my 18 months of COBRA are over. Who knows what health care will look like then.
     
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    When you know an awful piece of legislation is going to cause those plans to go away either directly or indirectly, and you tell people that they can keep their plans, you are lying. Obama knew he was lying when he made the statement over and over again in order to sell his snake oil and he kept saying it because it fooled just enough people. There's no sense in trying to make it seem more innocent after the fact. It is what it is.
     
  14. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Looks like a good place for my old gripe. Subscription based services like insurance take additional margins from people for the convenience of not shopping. Loyalty to your old insurance plans or your old doctor costs you money. It is not a thing that ought to be encouraged. Consumers should shop their insurance, shop their doctor, shop their phone service, electric service, internet service, lawn service, maid service, gym membership, apartment, their own employers -- as much as you can manage because companies take rents on people who won't shop. I pity the fools who have managed to keep whatever insurance they had in 2010.
     
  15. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    This really does play out in reality. Hospital procedures can be in total separate price ranges in the same area.
     
  16. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    You don't understand what happened. The legislation didn't make those plans go away. Plenty of people still have those plans. You go all around Houston and you will find tons of companies that still have grandfathered or grandmothered plans. Lots of people who don't have them have only their employer to blame for making plan changes because in fact, they didn't like their plan.
     
  17. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    If you have the same plan today you had in 2010 you are likely paying less than someone who has shopped around every year. Those 2010 plans are priced independently instead of through community rating so if you still have it, you probably have a good deal.
     
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  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Because you're grandfathered?
     
  19. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    Yep. The old grandfathered plans, each person or company would get a rate increase that included market trends PLUS their own personal trend. So if you were healthy you might get a small rate increase, or none at all outside of the industry factor. Blue Cross was known to give negative renewals. If you are not grandfathered and instead on ACA priced plan (individuals and small businesses) you are rated under community rating so your personal experience doesn't factor in.
     
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  20. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    You ain't lying. I let my wife handle our electric provider and payment until very recently. Our June bill was $200 less this year than last. It was my fault for not shopping around. No telling how much money we gave away.
     

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