What? None? Not disputable? It's not like Bev does it all the time, but sometimes he runs the PnR at the top of the key and Harden plays off ball. He's the best man for the job so he does it the most often, but if Chris Paul was here, he'd take the off ball role more often. That's not disputable.
This is complete revisionist history. I think we all knew winning game 5 would be important, because game 7 would be in SAS. But I absolutely did not expect the season was over at that point, and would argue 95% of the BBS felt the same way. Again, if the truth of the matter was that Game 5 was the series, that again speaks to the Rockets as an organization. That what happened in game 6 happened is even more damning. I didn't say the series wasn't competitive or the teams are light years apart. I said its insane to call say its quibbling to argue a slight difference between the Spurs or Rockets or think they're all that close either. The Rockets lost 4 out of 5 to a Spurs team without Tony Parker, with Kawhi when they blew game 5 and without Kawhi when they gave up for game 6. They're not light years apart, but it's just not looking at what actually happened if you argue that they are pretty close. CP3 is no doubt the better player. But Hayward is now very very good and the better fit. Which as I described, means Hayward could/would have more of an impact. Not just because of him, but because of roster balance.
For all of you that think that this is not good for Houston.....until Harden proves that he can sustain his production in the playoffs (Game 6 comeback against the Clippers, closeout game this year against the Spurs etc.) then we need someone like Paul to take reins in those situations.
If Paul is serious about winning, Nuggets are off of the list entirely. It would say plenty about the man if he chose money over a title chance. If he stays with Clips, it's a bad move IF he's chasing a ring. They don't have a Harden and are middling in the west with another early exit guaranteed more than likely. Not to mention Griffin probably bolts. I just don't see the Clippers or Nuggets in the equation UNLESS it is about the money. I have a gut feeling it's really down to the Rockets and Spurs if he's about a title push. - Paul lob to Capela could be lethal. - Harden could sell him being ONE of the key pieces to a ring. - Harden would have his star. - Many more reasons. I actually thinks it's VERY possible we land him. BUT hard to deny Pop and Spurs.
Well...I mean...other than his entire OKC tenure where he was one of the best players in the league off-ball... BUT OTHER THAN THAT...
What kind of bizarro world do you live in?? Turning George Hill into Kawhi Leonard is absolutely a better move than turning KMart, Lamb and a lotto pick in James Harden. Kawhi is a Finals MVP, a defensive player of the year winner, an MVP runner up (just like Harden, though Harden will surpass him there by being a 2 time runner up this year) and is younger. To make it clearer when the Spurs traded George Hill he was an 11.6 ppg scorer, with 2.5 apg, 2.5 rpg, on "meh" efficiency who was already 25 with 5 starts the prior year. But the Spurs developed Kawhi you say!?!?! Ok, true... all the more reason to point to their organization success. As for they haven't proven they can be successful in FA?? WTF??? They JUST signed LMA two offseasons ago. They added Gasol last offseason. What are you talking about?
I love the joker I made a thread about how great he was during the season. But he is not ever going to be a two way force, he's one of the worst defensive centers in the entire league. He may already be the best offensive center in the game he's that good imo. He's like a better rebounding scoring Marc Gasol with much worse defense. None the less him and cp3 would be good. But cp3 and harden would be better because of the way the NBA is now a days it's a guard league. Every great center in the NBA couldn't lead there team to more that 42 wins (Marc Gasol) as the guy, to me that says a lot about the impact at center.
Averages 1 block/1steal per game, positive DBPM and DRPM, on/off of +12, including +2 defensively, but tell me again how he is one of the worst defensive centers in the league....
Again, not sure how you come to the conclusion that he is one of the worst defensive centers in the league. Nothing about his on/off or advanced metrics suggest this. I don't have the 16-17 rim protection numbers, but you have to account for the fact that nobody else on that team can guard anyone....
Do you even watch basketball, lol? Harden and CP3 can adjust their game, sure, but neither one is a superb off ball player. CP3 is better in that regard than Harden, but it's not either one of their strengths. And Harden in particular has barely done anything off ball now in multiple seasons. He did add some back cuts in the playoffs given all the overplaying, but that's about as much off ball movement we've seen from him. As for Curry, KD, Dray and Klay. Again, do you even watch? Klay gets all of his points off assists. Draymond is great with the ball in his hands as a passer, but you're not exactly saying Dray, here's the ball, go to town. In fact, you're NEVER saying that as a Warriors. He's great with the ball in his hands off a rebound to properly start a fastbreak, or off a roll, at the top of the key, etc.... where he passes or makes the right play given the movement hte offense has already had. Meanwhile KD just had the best season of his career by moving freely off ball. Or how about this to give you some math. Last season Harden was assisted on 9.6% of his 2 pointers. 9.6%!!! Basically barely any. He was assisted on 29.9% of his threes. So 7 out of every 10 of his threes was him creating for himself. Now this was trending more and more towards Harden creating for himself, and the prior year the numbers were at least a little better ... As I noted CP3 is a LITTLE better here. He was assisted on 10.6% of his 2's and 38.4% of his threes. What about KD? He was assisted on 56% of his twos and 76% of his threes this year. But that's this year, you say... what about last year, with Russ?? Well, pretty similar, he was assisted on 51% of his twos and 65% of his threes. He was ALWAYS a guy that liked ball movement and off ball action. Even Curry, who'd I'd argue as the pg of that team is the most ball dominant, was assisted on 39% of his twos and 61% of his threes. Even if I go back to 2011/2012 Harden, he was still only assisted on 24% of his twos, still a pretty low #. Now he was assisted on 84% of his threes. I'm by no means saying Harden and CP3 couldn't get better at movement, and it wouldn't be an improvement. Two great players are two great players. Just it's a pretty odd fit. They're both PGs now. As someone else said, what is the pitch?? We made Harden the pg, he had a season that put him near the top in the MPV race, but now we want him to go back to SG? It's just strange.
Yeah, I can see situationally where this would be effective (like game 5 OT), but overall you are hamstringing a lot of what made Harden so dominant last year. That being said, maybe he gives you some of that back on defense if he doesn't have to be the PG every play on offense. I don't know - it's going to be hard to figure out a solution to toppling GSW.
Um, no. Except for his rookie year, where he was assisted on 38% of his 2 point makes, he's never been assisted on more than 30% of his 2 point makes in his career. For comparison sake, in 2001/2002 Allen Iverson led the league in scoring, had crap offensive teammates, and was assisted on 37% of his twos and 77% of his threes. For comparison sake, in 2005/2006 Kobe Bryant led the league in scoring, had crap offensive teammates, and was assisted on 36% of his twos and 68% of his threes. Last year, Harden was assisted on 9.6% (!!) of his twos and only 29.9% of his threes (!!). For comparison sake, last year Russ was assisted on 13.3% of his twos and 34.3% of his threes, neither of which speak to great offensive movement but at least both of which top Harden. When I think of AI, Kobe, Russ last year, I don't exactly think of great off ball movers. These are guys you give the ball to and let them go to work.
Right, agreed absolutely. To be clear... I'm not definitively saying Harden can't become a meaningfully better off ball player. Heck, if worst case scenario we stop seeing those 10+ three point attempt games from Harden, because they are so often accompanied with a poor shooting %, and he instead just let's the threes come to him, that will be a vast improvement. I'm just pointing out, FACTUALLY and by the EYE TEST, what type of player Harden has been, and what type of player CP3 has been.
Don't you get it? Since it didnt work with Lawson and a coach with 0 creativity when it comes to offensive sets, that's a good indicator that it won't ever work with anyone else.
