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Trump Expected to Pull Out of Paris Climate Agreement

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by dobro1229, May 31, 2017.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    remind me of Trump ban Muslim stance; then later, we aren't banning Muslim

    seriously, people can't even be honest to themselves?
     
  2. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    Trump's next move should be to get the Senate to vote on the Paris agreement. Watch the Joe Manchins and Claire MacCaskills of the Senate vote it down.
     
  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Arguing the economics as a reason for pulling out is a false choice because it doesn't take into account the fact that with this agreement you can set your targets wherever you want.

    The US could've stayed in as a symbolic gesture that "we care" but lowered their targets to a point where you could pollute away with dirty coal and you'd likely never fail inspections. Even if you did there is no penalties. It's not like the US would be forced to lay off workers if they missed their targets.

    Such a lack of understanding on both sides about the actual agreement. You just gave China free reign to set future global policy in their economic best interest, upgraded their title as global leader in energy innovation, and you needlessly gave a middle finger to science and our earth in the most childish manner.

    What an embarrassment. Like every other Trump policy put in place this serves one purpose and one purpose only ... trolling liberals and playing to his base.
     
    arno_ed likes this.
  4. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    Could other countries do this? like say China..............

     
  5. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    These are naive (at best) and dishonest responses. So far this president, led by advice from his EPA administrator, has shown no indication of concern for the environment. At every opportunity they have reversed regulatory protections related to the environment, usually to the intended benefit of the energy companies you mentioned. But to date, these moves by Trump have not appeared to help companies:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-is-reducing-environmental-regulations-2017-6

    Even if I accepted your stat of $1,000 per family (not sourced as far as I know), I'd pay $1,000 a year for an improved environment that would not only benefit me and my immediate family but also future generations. Seems a very reasonable investment. The added benefit of improved perception among other countries and the possibility that it improves our security. Which would also suggest that the $1,000 spent to improve the environment would be better spent here than on military spending.

    To your question about why companies have lined up to oppose Trump's latest move against the environment? Since the companies span all industries, its disingenuous to suggest the Paris Agreement was a move to help "buddies in energy business". Instead, these corporations and the CEOs that run them know that good environmental policy can also mean good business. And its even more concerning that CEOs of major corporations across all industries express more and better concern about our environment that the president and the person he put in charge of protecting the environment. Unfortunately the president didn't listen to the Secretary of State and Secretary of the Interior on this...both who favored staying in the Paris Agreement.

    But in hindsight... all of this is for naught. Unfortunately, American voted in a president who has no concern about the environment. A president who appointed as EPA administrator who has no concern about the environment. So there will be many more opportunities for further weakening of environmental protections at the cost of the quality of life, here in the United States, and worldwide. Hopefully the next administration will fix the damage caused by this one.
     
  6. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    You answered the question yourself when you quoted me. Yes of course they can and they already have with targets pushed out several years.

    But China is now seated at the head of the table and it's no accident that Xi and other Chinese officials were on a media blitz yesterday in meeting with Greenpeace, the EU, and Merkel.

    Need an example of Chinese financial interests?- the funding that will subsidize helping provide clean energy to 3rd world countries. China is raising billions alone... you don't think they will have a say so in how that money is spent? Obviously there will have to be private sector energy companies used to provide the services. You just handed China free reign to have their Chinese companies work with those countries. You just needlessly Black listed American companies from getting those contracts.
     
  7. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Don't forget India. They are going to want a piece of the big pie and they will attract many companies that are working on future energies.
     
  8. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    I assume today you'll hear the Trump spin being "This was a bad deal for the US, we want to negotiate a better deal" which is such a bogus explanation that will obviously leave out the very essential part of the agreement that allowed for the US to adjust their targets, and that there were no penalties to not hitting those targets. They will also dodge questions actually asking about climate, and focus on the proverbial "JOBS".

    Also the fact that the EU leaders have already come out to say that the deal is non-negotiable is a pretty big indicator that their line of "we want to re-negotiate" is complete crap. Also Xi and China putting on the media blitz yesterday was a clear sign that China is taking over our role with a big smile on their face.

    There will be no other better deal. Its not a cable company where you can just call back in next year when your new bill comes, and you have other cable companies to shop for leverage.
     
  9. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    yes, i can only imagine the benefits of the temperature of the Earth going down .02 degrees by 2050. Your children will notice and thank you for such an important contribution.
     
  10. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    The presidents cabinet actually does believe in climate change.

    His Secretary of State, secretary of energy and the EPA administrator are all on record believing in climate change with the first two advising to stay in this deal. Other than the president himself, not sure if any member of his cabinet denies climate change?
     
    #350 justtxyank, Jun 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
  11. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    LOL you believe this? You're triggered.
     
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  12. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Again... you are either naive or disingenuous to position support of the Paris Agreement solely in terms of global temperature reduction as reported by National Review. But I get it... you are programmed to support any and all things done by Trump. You voted for him, and you have to justify your vote. You see any move through a "wealth distribution" lens, and care not about the environment, now or in the future.
     
  13. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Are you sure on Scott Pruitt. At best he seems he has avoided directly answering questions about climate change, and without question he denies CO2 as a cause, and questions human activity as a cause of climate change:

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...tt-questions-basic-facts-about-climate-change
     
  14. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    EPA's model numbers (model is called MAGICC*). not national review. The EPA's position is that that the CPP does not reduce temperatures but shows initiative. That's what we are getting for our trillions. not solutions, but 'initiative'. But I must be super naive (I don't think that word means what you think it means)
     
  15. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Again, you are either being naive or disingenuous... first, you take a single bullet out a report on the CPP, and didn't discuss any of the range of environmental and economic benefits such as reduction of pollutants, led, energy savings, and increase in renewable energy generation.

    The reason I use the word naive... I am offering you an out from the other possibility.

     
  16. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    the left is the group that is "programmed to oppose" here. They don't even understand what's included in the Paris agreement.

    Instead, they're positioning this as "the end of American global leadership", "we don't care about trees, water and island nations", and "F you, Earth".
     
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  17. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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  18. dandorotik

    dandorotik Member

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    Well, to be honest, Trump doesn't help matters here. He is a very poor communicator. But I don't see most of these "left" posters arguing over nothing- they have legit points. Some haven't read it in its entirety, true. As long as Ivanka got her concession....
     
  19. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    Then whats with all the tweets from elon musk and others saying 'climate change is real and a threat' if the goal of this is not to address climate change?

    But just so everyone is clear, NewRox has admitted this Paris **** has nothing to do with climate change. Apparently it has to do with air pollution and economic benefits (haha) because it doesn't do anything for climate change.
     
  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Yes, smart ass, I do believe I can negotiate my cable contract as I do every year when Time Warner tries to jack up my rate and I call and threaten to go with Dish.

    There is a reason why Trump speaks superficially about "deals" like this. He thinks people are so dumb that they will think "deals" like the Paris Agreement are as transactional in nature as a Cable Bill, and all it takes is a master negotiator to get the US a better rate.
     

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