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ClipsNation: Doc Rivers, Kevin Durant, and Super Teams: Where Do We Draw the Line?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Clips/Roxfan, May 30, 2017.

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  1. Clips/Roxfan

    Clips/Roxfan Member

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    by Lucas Hann@LucasJHann

    Doc Rivers criticized Kevin Durant’s decision to join the Warriors, but he won a championship because of stars teaming up.

    In an interview on the sports talk show “Mike and Mike,” Doc Rivers was asked about Kevin Durant’s decision to join the Golden State Warriors in free agency. The Warriors, of course, had the best record in the NBA during the regular season and are now en route to the NBA Finals following a perfect 12-0 sweep of their Western Conference playoff opponents. Here’s the Rivers quote, via sportingnews.com:


    "It is tough when you see a guy join a team — in Durant’s case what he did this year. That was tough for anybody, anybody’s that’s competitive, to watch. He lost, and then he joined. Having said that, it was his choice, I have no problem with him, but it’s something from a competitive standpoint, you would think you wouldn’t do.

    "I have no problem with him doing it, it’s just something from a competitive point, for me, I guess when I played it would have been tough for me to join Detroit. Having said that, he has the ability to do it, guys are doing it, and there’s nothing you can do about it.”

    Of course, the backlash to this comment was swift—didn’t Doc Rivers himself only win a championship because of a “super team,” when his 24-win Celtics team added Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen to form a “Big 3” with Paul Pierce? And shouldn’t the same criticism apply to LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh for forming their “Big 3” in Miami?

    Well, there’s merit to that point, certainly. There seems to be this notion from critics of every champion that past champions “didn’t need help.” Of course, the famous dynasties, from Russell’s Celtics, to Magic’s Lakers, to Bird’s Celtics, to Jordan’s Bulls, to Kobe’s Lakers (wow, can we get some variety in the dynasties, please?)—they all featured multiple superstars. Criticizing LeBron because he plays with Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love is a little silly in that respect, as is criticizing Steph Curry because the Warriors spread responsibility more than most teams.


    Still, the Kevin Durant situation is different. As Doc Rivers noted, he didn’t just switch teams, he switched to the team that had just eliminated him in a 7-game series. There’s an old saying that “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em,” but I think it’s implied that if you go up 3-1 and end up losing in 7, you’re probably capable of beating ‘em.

    Here’s the distinction between Durant and other examples of super-team building offered in the above-linked Sporting News article: the Celtics big 3 came together to form an entirely new team on the ashes of a 24-win 2007 Celtics team. Miami lost in the first round in 2010 with Wade, and then completely gutted their team and built a new identity around their big 3. Cleveland won 33 games the year before LeBron’s return, but he saw promise in their young pieces and chose to help them become great. The other Warriors—Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green—were all drafted into their situations and grew together to reach greatness. Guys like David West and Deron Williams are veteran role players, simply choosing to slot into roles on good teams instead of bad ones.

    But Kevin Durant, in his prime and considered to be a top-3 player in the NBA, didn’t follow those paths. He wasn’t part of a new Super Team like Garnett and Allen, and he didn’t take matters into his own hands to team up with other free agents like James, Wade, and Bosh, and he didn’t even choose to help boost a younger team to contention, like James in his return to Cleveland. Instead, he slotted in on an already-great Warriors team, coming off of the greatest regular season of all time and a relatively flukey Finals loss.


    Great teams are almost always Super Teams—the NBA is driven by star power. But where do we draw the line of respecting a star’s decision to be a part of one? For me, it’s right behind Kevin Durant’s heels. It’s one thing if you’re joining the team that eliminated you in the first round, or even the second in a noncompetitive series. But if you’re jumping ship from one semi-finalist to another, and if you’re joining what was already the greatest team of all time instead of building something of your own, it’s not a competitive move.

    And as a result, we haven’t had much of a competitive league this season.

    http://www.clipsnation.com/2017/5/3...ere-do-we-draw-the-line-golden-state-warriors
     
    #1 Clips/Roxfan, May 30, 2017
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  2. Pizza_Da_Hut

    Pizza_Da_Hut I put on pants for this?

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    He's not wrong... but being Rivers, I feel like I just have to disagree.

    Look, it isn't on Durant to want anything other than to win. Whether it's by hook or by crook, all NBA players want to win. If the NBA wants to foster super teams like those of old, and have players like those of old, bring back the old rules. Cap smoothening (or the lack thereof) is the real perpetrator here, not Durant. The league needs to fix the rules, further incentivise players to stay, and reward them when they do. That's on the NBA, not Durant.
     
    #2 Pizza_Da_Hut, May 30, 2017
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  3. Pizza_Da_Hut

    Pizza_Da_Hut I put on pants for this?

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    ... now, does that mean the product they are putting out this year doesn't suck? Oh sure as **** it does. Screw the NBA Finals. I'll be watching *gulp* baseball instead. I think I'm going to be sick.
     
    #3 Pizza_Da_Hut, May 30, 2017
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  4. LabMouse

    LabMouse Member

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    First, if Cavs have more money, then Wade would join Jame for a super-super team. Second, if Durant did not join the GS, then Cavs would win this year champ, then next, next... Is this good for NBA ? Or Lucas Hann is the Cavs fan.

    The NBA sucks because they want to make more and more money without caring the good product, and of course some people are willing to pay it. Personally I stopped to pay money to follow the NBA years ago, I am happy for the decision. Texans will be good this year, just follow them.
     
    #4 LabMouse, May 30, 2017
  5. Brown Lost It

    Brown Lost It Member

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    I don't mind the salary cap going up, but I also think the max should be half the cap if it is not hard capped.

    either the super teams are going to get taxed super hard or they will only have one Max player player

    if there is a hard cap then 35% is fine.

    there should only be one curry, harden, lebron, durant, westbrook, kawhi, etc. on each team. this will make the players like mike conley, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green not get the max. They simply should not get the max. No team will sign them for the max if that means they will be their best player for the next five years.

    I want to see LeBron and the cavs versus durant, Harden versus Westbrook, Chris Paul versus Stephen Curry. not all these players in a boring all star game that ruins everything outside of the finals.
     
    #5 Brown Lost It, May 30, 2017
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
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  6. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Haven't read article

    The NBA has a salary cap. If guys wanna get together there isn't much that can be done



    Kevin Durant spent a good amount of time in OKC and LeBron did first go round in Cleveland
     
    #6 pgabriel, May 30, 2017
  7. Vivi

    Vivi Member

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    In the end they're both a b**** ass.
     
    #7 Vivi, May 30, 2017
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  8. MystikArkitect

    MystikArkitect Member
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    That's how bad they want a title.

    If the other players in the league want to sit around and watch from the comfort of their couches and mattresses with millions stuffed into them then I guess that's fine.

    Viewership is going to fall dramatically next year. If we go into the season without a 3rd or 4th competitor to these two teams there isn't really a point.
     
    #8 MystikArkitect, May 30, 2017
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  9. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    We draw the line at Nene and Pau Gasol

    -David Stern
     
    #9 cheke64, May 30, 2017
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  10. Pen15clubber

    Pen15clubber Member

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    Okc and GS was going to be sick this year but then it got pooped on
     
    #10 Pen15clubber, May 30, 2017
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  11. Pen15clubber

    Pen15clubber Member

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    Guys like David west also annoy the fu k out of me
     
    #11 Pen15clubber, May 30, 2017
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  12. MD_in_Training

    MD_in_Training Member

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    KD can do whatever he wants, obviously. No one is talking about taking away personal liberties here.

    What we are talking about is not giving a s*** about the league, because it's just not that good of entertainment anymore. Parity has been crap in the league for some time now, and KD basically took what little was left and threw it into the toilet.

    When is the Finals anyways? Hasn't it been ages since the Cavs and Warriors finished off their appetizers?
     
    #12 MD_in_Training, May 30, 2017
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  13. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    What Durant did is not relatable to what happened in Boston or Miami. Very different.
     
    #13 J Sizzle, May 30, 2017
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  14. juanm34

    juanm34 Member

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    I'm all for eliminating super teams. Right after we form one and win multiple titles.
     
    #14 juanm34, May 30, 2017
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  15. what

    what Member

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    I agree. When Durant says he didn't make Orlando not make the playoffs, sure. But when you join a team that is already better than every team in the league, and you are a top 3 player, it made the championship hopes of every other team, not the warriors, non-existent.

    The fact that he can't see that makes him delusional.
     
    #15 what, May 30, 2017
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  16. MorningZippo

    MorningZippo Member

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    Keep the team hardcap, but remove the player salary soft cap.

    Giving up 5 million a year is one thing. Do you think Kevin Durant would be down to give up 15 or 20? Hell no.
     
    #16 MorningZippo, May 30, 2017
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  17. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    how do you define super team? because all of our guys are super in my eyes. hence we're a super team. well except for harden when he faced the spurs
     
    #17 Jontro, May 31, 2017
  18. Pen15clubber

    Pen15clubber Member

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    Just to **** with the NBA Hayward should sign with GS for the minimum
     
    #18 Pen15clubber, May 31, 2017
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  19. TechieOne

    TechieOne Member

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    #19 TechieOne, May 31, 2017
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  20. Fyreball

    Fyreball Member

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    #20 Fyreball, May 31, 2017
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