[Obstruction of Justice] Trump asked Comey to end Flynn investigation

Personally, I'm very disturbed by many on the left. I have to keep telling them, "Don't make everything into a "it's the end of the world" scenario.

If Trump were smart, he'd go 180 and embrace the liberal media. Set up an interview with Anderson Cooper. Joke with him. But stick to his agenda. It's such a wasted opportunity. And it's really not hard to do. Trump has shown very, very small glimpses that he can do this- and heck, the guy used to be liberal. I just don't have any confidence in him.

And, hopefully, on the other side, some of the more moderate liberals start standing up to the extremists and tell them, enough is enough. Dial down the outrage over every little thing.

But it's hard for them to dial it down when they're dealing with a President who institutes bans at a moment's notice, says completely inappropriate things, and is an extremist himself. I really do think that if Trump were out and Pence were in, it would change. And if it didn't, then I'd be calling out the liberals with no problem. But I can't criticize them when their outrage is in response to something outrageous from Trump.

Again, Trump does have the power to change the narrative completely.

 

As someone people on the right complain about/accuse of doing this... my response is, isn't this a political discussion board? Shouldn't you be able to point out and criticize political actions you disagree with? Why is there some limit, either in the number of things, or the "severity" of things?

The right followed no such limit when Clinton was President. Nor when Obama was President. There was the very same description (Obama Derangement Syndrome") that the Trump supporters use today. Does anyone remember Fox News' front page the past 8 years? Or listened to talk radio like Rush? Or Drudge report? Daily, constant stream of what Obama did or said, and why it was wrong.

Funny thing, you do have a few right wing people now saying how they now thought those constant criticisms here about Benghazi. or Whitewater, or "fill in the blank" was "just as wrong", yet trust me, none of these people calling for limits were doing so back then.

Further more, Trump says and does so many things worth criticizing. And now, we're not describing scoops of ice cream criticisms (though interesting on a human nature basis and sorta funny), but significantly wrong things. If anything, there are things that slip by.

For example, Trump and DeVos just changing the previous Obama rule about the number of companies that handle student loans and now making a rule limiting that number to ONE (1) company. The Trump/DeVos excuse is simplification but the end result is there will be a government-mandated monopoly resulting in poorer customer service and higher costs.

Does that qualify as being worth criticizing?

Here we are in complete agreement. My worry before inauguration day was that Trump would choose to not be president of all Americans. And in so many way he has shown he only is the president of those that supported him. Doing that 180 you described above would be a start of communicating he is president of all Americans, even if only in a small and mostly superficial way. Focusing on infrastructure and jobs instead of his more divisive programs (Wall, healthcare, taxes) would be another more concrete and lasting way. Unfortunately both for Trump and Americans, he chose not to prioritize this and it is appearing less and less likely that he will get the time to so so.

 

Im finding it easier to understand Trump. By nature, we want to believe we are rational human beings. We try to rationalize what Trump says and does. Its not so much Trump lives in his own world but he understands the irrationality of people. Facts and truth mean little to him. He has no interest in wanting his adversaries to accept him; its quite the opposite. He was told he could never be president, but he found a way amongst his twisted strategies to accomplish it. In his mind, he is right and everyone else is wrong. He is nearly the complete opposite of Obama. In his mind, the truth does not matter. What matters is what he can get away with...legally.

Something to keep in mind is Trump does not see the Republicans as allies. Trump is one who does not let bygones be bygones. He has not forgotten how the Republicans have tried to screw him out of the nomination. There will be a war against the Republicans with him.

I have yet to see Trump do anything of significant in 'making America great again'. I had hoped Trump would do more instead of prancing around and antagonizing everyone he disagrees with. I do not think this will change. He will not resign and I do not see an impeachment at this point. Its going to be 4 long years of people like NewRoxFan responding to every troll-baiting tweet from Trump. Its just really sad we ended up with the choices at the polling both back in November.

 

Hey, I have a fan. Hope you are not a stalker... but it is a compliment that I dominate your thoughts...

 

Perhaps that's how he could avoid a perjury charge on a technicality, but the implication from that statement was that no one told them to stop an investigation for a political reason.....and if they did it would be a "big deal" which would then beg the question as to why he did nothing at all about it to this date if he believed that the president had asked him to stop an investigation for political reasons. There's just no way he can come across as credible given the disconnect between his actions and his words if it's his testimony that the president told him to stop an investigation.

 

This has already been answered by McCabe and others that spoke to the FBI and Comey's actions. He's also going to publicly testify in the next two weeks where we should get even more clarification on this.

The response McCabe gave was that no pressure they were getting was affecting their ability to more forward with the investigation.... UNTIL Trump Fired Comey of course. Also Comey did share these memo's with his staff and it was obviously going to be a part of the overall case.

If it wasn't, at that point, clear cut obstruction of justice that a grand jury would 100% indict someone on in a case, I personally think he did the right thing to not put the investigation in jeopardy by making this part of the case public at such an early part of the investigation.

IF this was to be ruled as Obstruction by the grand jury it would likely be considered a "Mosaic" where you have intent offered in his own word, the memos, and then the ultimate firing & further intent coming from his own mouth. If you pulled one item out and judged it equally it probably doesn't get you an indictment like it would if you got caught breaking into the FBI headquarters and destroyed evidence. Given the complicated case, and the fact that Trump hadn't actually fired him yet at that point, I think Comey likely followed protocol by concealing the memos.

 

That answer isn't sufficient given his previous testimony that it would be a big deal if someone did something like that. If it was a big deal, you'd think he'd have done something, anything, about it by now. Also, mentioning that he's going to testify now isn't him doing something about it because it's not like he asked to testify, he was asked to do so. Like I said, given the disconnect between his words and his actions, he won't have any credibility if he testifies that the president told him to stop the investigation. That's why I've said since the beginning that it better be more than a "he said, she said" situation if any sane person thinks this is going anywhere other than being a media story.

 

Obstruction of Justice will be up to Mueller (if he's not fired by Trump) and the grand jury. Bobby's opinion is just an opinion. Again.. you have Trumps own words. Its not Comey's vs. Trump. I don't know why Trump fans keep forgetting the fact that Trump said himself he decided to fire him because of Russia.

If you look up the actual law of OOJ, its incredibly broad. Even lying to investigators can be used in an obstruction case. We just don't know how a grand jury would rule in this case given such unique circumstances.

Also I don't know what quote you are talking about with Comey about obstruction. Only thing I can recall him or McCabe saying is that as of the last hearing (before the firing) they haven't had anything that has halted their investigation. So those quotes have to be stated with the context that the actual firing hadn't happened yet. That's a pretty damn big piece to the equation that the grand jury would look at.

 

Fair enough, we'll wait and see what happens, but I feel like you guys are setting yourself up for failure by not remaining grounded and buying into too much fantasy.

 

Failure? I think its a shame people now view politics like its a game of tribal winning and losing. The truth is every day we go by where the government and the political agendas of individuals and interest groups are making life harder on normal Americans like myself and yourself, we are all losing a little bit each day. At this point its a damage assessment.

The only thing I'm looking at here is whether "we" are better or worse off after whatever happens. I think we'd be better off with just about any president (including Pence) running the country than Trump. The lack of stability along with the questions of corruption, and outside interests make it a no brainer that we would be better off with President Pence but in no way would I in a million years look at that situation and say "Thats a Win!".

 

I would agree but that's where we're at. I mean, just look at the BS I've caught for pointing out that there isn't solid evidence yet when it comes to this issue. There are those who have absolutely lost their mind in response to that obvious statement. There's absolutely a lynch mob mentality right now and I'm saying those who jump on that bandwagon are setting themselves up for failure because they aren't looking at things logically they are just out for blood. Perhaps you aren't one of those, if not, that's good.

My personal opinion is that if some legit evidence comes out that Trump committed a serious crime, it would be a "win" for him to be impeached, not just politically but also for the country as a whole because it would signal a shift from when things like that were 100% political back to a place where the right thing is done simply because it's the right thing. I think it was a bad thing for the country when Bill Clinton was allowed to get away with perjury and obstruction of justice simply because of politics. I think it was a bad thing for the country when Hillary Clinton was allowed to get away with multiple felonies due to politics. Having the right thing done despite the politics is something that is overdue in this country and honestly we can't expect it to happen to a Democrat (let's face it, the lynch mob type would defend the actions of ANY Democrat no matter what they did) so Trump is the perfect candidate for it if it can be proven that he broke the law in a serious way.

 

Shame on Bill for lying about a blow job.
Seriously these false equavilencies are hilarious.

And since this political game has turned to nothing more than a sports competition and individual posters like Bobby pretend to be holier than thou bipartisan saints it's quite telling that the only side that pushes these stupid false equivalencies are conservatives.

And it's because conservative posters are far less certain that their ideology actually has any merit.

 

Interesting... not only did the White House not dispute the report that Trump described Comey as a "nut job" and that firing him took pressure off Trump, but Spicer seemed to confirm the statements:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/20/trump-russia-meeting-obstruction-investigation-238639

 

This admin is so used to lying.

There was no such grandstanding or politicizing. In fact, Comey mostly refuses to said anything much about the investigation. The only thing he did said is that the Justice Dept authorized him to confirm that the FBI is investigating the Russian interference in the 2016 election.

It is Trump and this admin's action that politicize the investigation and bringing it to a boiling point. They did it to themselves. But as usual, they either can't compute that or refuses to and lie about it.

What's very unfortunate, is there was a clear attempt by this admin and many conservative to attack Comney and blame him. Constant attacks on an individual (you know, we seen it with Clinton) clearing worked in clouding these minds -- in other word, propaganda works and lies continue to work for some segment of the population. Victimized minds.

EDIT: yes, the investigation would continue, but once they appoint their choice of Trump-approved FBI director, what do you think would happen? Too bad for Trump and fortunately for the US, Trump dumbness back-fire and resulted in a special counsel.

 

what an idiot

 

Just to refresh everyone's memories.

 

Trump's lawyers now concede Trump attempted to obstruct justice:

 

Theme from Jaws playing in the background...