This is the default ploy of an overmatched internet poster. Definitive strawman tactic. "Fine! He's the best ever! WHATEVER!" The consensus isn't that he's flawless and the next Tom Brady; literally NOBODY has said that. The consensus is that he's been overly scrutinized to the point that it's possible his flaws and limitations have been blown to much larger proportions than they may actually merit - the vast majority of which, btw, are almost universal for EVERY QB prospect. Pointing that out doesn't invalidate them; it merely lessens their viability. No rookie QB has ever walked into the NFL a fully-formed prospect.
LOL it's not that I'm "overmatched" it's just that I know when I'm talking to a brick wall and that's clearly the case. It's funny that you bring up the "consensus" in this context given that you've been doing your best to ignore what the consensus was when it comes to the flaws in his game. It's simply not worth arguing with fans who are basing their analysis on hope and best wishes. If you won't listen to reason, I won't keep trying to talk sense into you, I'll just let you go nuts with whatever you want to say and then wait for you to be wrong....at which point you'll probably say "no one could have seen this coming" or something like that. It's just a cycle I've gone through way too many times with "justwinz" QB's.
This too would be your response IF you're proven wrong as well. This argument is futile, let's just wait until the preseason, at a minimum, before we start to take definitive stances. I never knew we had so many film evaluation / QB skill gurus around here.
There's no "proving someone wrong" when all they are doing is citing the scouts opinion of a player coming out of college. For the record, I'm not saying that the kid can't develop into a good QB when I bring up the consensus opinion of Watson coming out of college. It's those who are saying that every scout's opinion about Watson is wrong who are trying to play film evaluation/QB skill guru, not me.
Yes, I'm very clearly ignoring his flaws....... "No rookie QB has ever walked into the NFL a fully-formed prospect." Look at me ignore those flaws! For me, the issue is with the methodology... has Watson, given his high-profile status and popularity, been evaluated the same as every other QB? I would suggest no. There's a visibility/herd mentality at play where Watson's flaws get magnified because the interest level is higher. They might all prove to be spot-on; but it feels like there's some hole-punching going on. I keep seeing accuracy as a problem - he ranked 10th in completion percentage last year while finishing 4th in attempts. In 2015, he was 5th and 8th. I recognize accuracy can take many forms - but those seem like competent baseline results. Sure, guy who still champions Ryan Mallett. That is a breathtaking lack of self-awareness, Robert. In reality, I've made exactly zero-point-zero predictions about Watson. I think he makes the team infinitely more interesting and I'm curious to see how the "justwinz" component translates. Beyond that, I challenge you to find ANYWHERE where I've said anything definitive about Watson's prospects. I'm hopeful. But I never go out on limbs when it comes to rookies, especially QBs, because no one ever knows.
I have been searching the threads and can't find them, but I would love to see who suggested we tank last season in hopes of getting Watson this year. Even tho tanking to 1st pick would have been hard. I just want to see if they jumped on another wagon during draft process or stayed with Watson.
You've been the king of "new information"... So I wouldn't be quick to judge others if they do the same. You repeatedly stated pre-draft that none of the QBs are worthy of first round grades. You've consistently held that ground bc of all the flaws every QB has...I'm assuming if any of them amount to something, you'll raise your hand and admit you were wrong? Bc that seems to be what you'd want people to do if Watson throws an inaccurate pass.
It depends on who we are talking about, if we are talking about professional NFL scouts, then yes, he was evaluated the same as every other QB. If we are talking about internet assholes and TV talking heads or whatever, then sure you have a bit on both sides. There will be some who criticize him more harshly due to his high profile games and there are those who give him a pass and ignore his flaws as a prospect due to his high profile success.
Okay....and who has disagreed with that? None of the QB's were worthy of a first round pick, but QB desperation causes teams to do really stupid things. It's how the Jake Lockers and Johnny Manziel's of the world get drafted in the first round despite not being first round quality prospects.
I think it's silly to say that there are no QBs worth a first round pick. Just bc there isn't a Peyton Manning type prospect doesn't mean that they all suck. And it's easy to sit now and say Manziel wasn't a first round quality player...but that was definitely not the majority conscensus pre-draft.
As would I, but that doesn't mean that he didn't reach in this instance. I'm not saying that because there isn't a Peyton Manning type that "they all suck", I'm saying that it was a near consensus opinion that this draft class was incredibly weak and that none of the QB's in this class truly deserve a first round pick. Even in this weak class, there were numerous people who gave Watson a 3rd round grade and I'm not sure there was any team that had him as the best QB in this class, rumor has it he was 3rd or worse on pretty much everyone's board including the Texans. None of that says that he can't be successful, but I don't think it should be ignored either. There is a desire to see Watson as "the savior" but I just think that might be people setting themselves up for disappointment. We've been down that road too many times before.
Also....when it comes to this specifically, I was saying that then. In fact, there are a lot of people who didn't have him on their draft board at all due to it being obvious that he was a bust waiting to happen.
Are you saying Rick reached in first round? or by going from 25 to 12. Because I think it's less of a reach when everyone else is doing it in front of you. Are we saying Watson was a bad first round pick because we traded up? Or if he was there at 25 you would have passed on him too? Mr. Clutch claims he was fine with Kizer.. well he went at #20 in the second round, would he have been fine to trade up there? It's just weird how some ppl don't like the player, and some just don't like where we got them.
I'm saying that I think that Watson could end up being a reach, yes. That the Texans saw the top 2 QB's were off the board and panicked. I would have been more fine with Watson at 25, but even then it's still a reach for need over a pick based on BPA. For example, if the Texans had traded up to the 12th pick to select Tom Savage, would that be a reach because they traded up for him or a reach because he wasn't worth a first round pick?
He COULD end up being anything. So, you aren't really saying anything. Why don't you go ahead and make your prediction now? Will Watson end up being a reach or not. Yes or no.
I mean just because of the grades? How about this.. Zach Cunningham had quite a few late first round grades, Davenport had some 3rd round grades. Just switch our Cunningham and Watson picks in your mind. Feel better? I said before this draft, you have to get your guy. If their guy was Watson or Mahomes, he wasn't gonna be there at 25, if it was Kizer, he wasnt gonna be there at 2-25, and if he was none of them, then okay wait. I think it's pretty lame to complain about letting the Vikings or Pats jump us to pick Bridgewater or Jimmy G, but then when we move to prevent that, everyone yells we reached. Basically the Texans are wrong all the time I guess.
I thought it was pretty lame of those people to complain about the Vikings jumping us to pick up a draft bust and I never got behind the deification of Jimmy G. My point was that it wasn't me saying anything, I was just repeating what pro scouts said and those arguing with me were really arguing with them. As to my opinion, I think if Watson gets a full year to sit and learn, he's got a solid shot at being a decent enough QB to be middling in quality. I think if he gets thrown to the wolves his first season that there is a very good chance he is considered a total bust.
I don't like that we don't have a first or second rounder next year. In general, trading up is risky and turns out bad. It's not always true, but it's a good rule of thumb. I like Watson, but he's not a sure thing so I don't like losing multiple picks for him.
