1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Jame Harden had a cold in game 2?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Swapshop, May 4, 2017.

  1. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43,848
    Likes Received:
    30,173
    I wasn't even looking at what his numbers are. Hes' at 57.2 TS% in these playoffs. A very strong number, if not his usual elite-level. I agree, if he could get over 60% then he'd be looking great.
     
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    TS% is a very valuable metric that is more times than not more indicitive of efficiency than than raw fg% but when Harden's key to that high ts% is jacking up an unprecedented amount of threes, it kinda of lessons the impact. There has to be some psychological impact to these players constantly seeing their shots brick all the time. It also generates more opportunities for the opposing team to start fastbreaks or possessions where our defense isn't fully set.

    You complain that I only harp fg% but you act as if TS% is the be all end all in how well someone does offensively. It isn't. Raw FG% has its merits still.

    More accurate shooting means less chances for the opponent to run the ball on half-set defenses something that really matters against teams like the Warriors.
     
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    If Harden could shoot 50% from the field I guarantee you you wouldn't see as high prolific ft numbers as he tends to try to draw fouls instead of making the bucket when he starts struggling from the field.

    I notice that when Harden is rolling shooting wise, he tends to try to make buckets in the rim instead of flailing his arms out trying to get the call.
     
  4. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    52,557
    Likes Received:
    144,788
    I love Harden, but his field goal percentage in the playoffs worries me as well. His scoring in the playoffs depends too much on getting to the line at an incredible rate because he is not making his shots at an acceptable level. The free throws are propping up his TS%, but he has to make shots. If we eventually want to win a chip one day, it's not gonna happen when you're #1 option is taking 20 shots a game and can barely manage 40% shooting. I think his tendency to jack up a bunch of highly contested threes off the dribble is tanking his field goal percentage. He's very good in the midrange area. Why can't he substitute some of those threes for some midrange shots that he's capable of making at a high rate? 49% of his shots have been threes in this playoffs, and he's not Steph Curry.
     
  5. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43,848
    Likes Received:
    30,173
    Well...if you are comparing the two, then yes, TS% is the be all end all. No, it does not define the entirety of how somebody is playing, but scoring-wise? Yeah, it does.
     
  6. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,601
    Likes Received:
    35,733
    Harden used to be really good at that step back jumper at the elbow. Wouldn't mind seeing him mix that in on his drives.
     
  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Really? I honestly don't think so. You keep stating this but you never give any reasons.

    Missed shots are missed shots. Missed shots allows the opponent to have a greater chance at running their offense with the defense half set. I'm sure there are other reasons why TS% isn't the be all end all.
     
  8. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43,848
    Likes Received:
    30,173
    Wouldn't mind this at all. If a mid-range shot is there, I'd like to see Harden take it more often than he currently does. Not a ton of them, but if they're open, he's good enough.
     
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Do you have any concerns that when Harden doesn't have the ball in his hands in a half court set, the team basically goes 4 on 5 on offense?
     
  10. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    52,557
    Likes Received:
    144,788
    He was more athletic/explosive, his handle was tighter, and his jumper was just better. He also didn't jack up so many I'll-advised threes.

    that Harden in this system with these shooters... :eek:
     
  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    I mean that's scary when you consider Harden's age. These are the years where his game gets sharper and honestly, his 14-15 season was sharper.
     
  12. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43,848
    Likes Received:
    30,173
    When you don't factor free throws or 3 pointers, you don't truly show how efficient one was scoring the ball. It's a concept that has been said many times. Very easy to understand.
     
  13. And1redux

    And1redux Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    227
    Morey is the problem. Any person with superficial knowledge in statistics understands that most efficient shot in general is not the same as the most efficient shot at every moment. There are variances and fluctuations that come into play, and if you are clearly struggling from the three on any given night, three-pointers could actually be the LEAST efficient shot there is for that individual player. Why doesn't Morey grasp this simple concept is beyond me.

    It's as if some baseball sabermetricians have come up with the most ideal swing range for the hitter, so the GM demands their players to always take a swing within that range no matter what the pitcher throws at him. It's just pure dogmatic thinking.
     
  14. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43,848
    Likes Received:
    30,173
    No, because our offense was historically good this year. Why would I be concerned about it? They will obviously have some poor possessions, but that's every team.
     
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Yes, it's a very simple concept to understand. It also should be a very simple concept to understand that TS% devalues the importance of bricking all the time.
     
  16. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,132
    Morey has said that they're already thinking what the next wave in the NBA will be. Who knows, maybe it's midrange
     
    J Sizzle likes this.
  17. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43,848
    Likes Received:
    30,173
    Correct. Valid point. But by in large, you go with the best option.
     
  18. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    52,557
    Likes Received:
    144,788
    He's still great and an MVP caliber player, but I agree that his game was sharper back in 14-15. I also agree with your point that he should be doing a sh*t ton of cardio this offseason along with whatever else he needs to do in order to get his body back to what it was like during that season. If u watch him now compared to back then, there's a notable difference in his speed and explosiveness, and that shouldn't be the case since he's only 27 right now and hasn't had some major injury or something that required surgery and sapped him of his athleticism.
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    All the teams in the league that jack up a many threes as the Rockets do it far better and that other team is the Warriors. I'm sure there are plentyo f teams in the league that could score just as much during the regular season if they took as many threes. It's a gimmick.
     
  20. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,132
    He also never struggled to finish at the rim like he sometimes does now. I mean Pau Gasol changing his shot? That's weird.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now