James Harden or Clyde Drexler in his prime?

Harden is a great scorer cause he has pg handles and is a true sg

 

Concerning your rebounding argument, that's actually a nice argument and we'll have to see what the future holds for Harden there. In terms of finishing, I'd disagree there and it's not because I feel that Drexler wasn't a great, great finisher, it's because Harden is devastating at finishing in traffic around larger players. It's so common to see larger players go to block Harden's shot and just barely miss. I'm glad that we both agree that dunking isn't always the best way to finish. Personally, I'll take Harden ability to finish over Drexler's due to Harden's creativity in that aspect of his game. I have to acknowledge that you made great points, but it's probably one of those gray areas where statistics weren't tracked closely enough to quantify either one of our statements.

 

I loved Drexler since Phi Slamma Jamma. I've grown to love Harden.

Its hard to say who the better player overall is as they are both great.

 

Clyde definitely more athletic and better defender. However, James is significantly better with the ball in his hands and his decision making. The Portland Clyde wasn't that smart of a player. I selected James by a slight margin though

 

while I agree that certain types of fouls weren't prevalent in the 80's/90's (shooting through people's arms on layups/3's, etc), there were plenty of ft's to go around in those eras. I haven't looked at this year's stats, but for a long time through the 2000's the FTA/FGA ratio was going way down. some of that is simply more 3's being taken but even after accounting for that it seemed like free throws were simply down. the huge volume of 3 point fouls may have shifted that some recently but we may not even be back up to historical norms. either way, with so many free throws to go around and harden going to the basket so much, you have to think he's still living at the line back then.

it does bring up an interesting point. were there no "trick" fouls back then simply because the refs wouldn't call them or simply because no one thought of them? I mean no one did the rip through until Duncan did it and then Durant popularized it, but it got calls as soon as they started doing it. it would be really weird to watch an 80's game and see a guy fling up a 3 because the defender reached in and then get a call because they just didn't make those calls, but you don't know because you never see old videos of anyone trying it. you have to think with all the other calls they made that they wouldn't have had a problem incorporating new calls into the arsenal.

 

and I would say james is definitely better than clyde. clyde never consistently reached the volume of stats james has consistently put up and I don't believe he was anywhere near james on efficiency. PER and WS/48 I'm pretty sure are hugely in james' favor as well.

and while I only have 20 year old memories of clyde, and really only of older clyde in Houston with a few highlights from the 80's thrown in, harden seems to definitely be the better finisher. I always felt clyde didn't have the body control once he got to the rim. it seemed like his goal was to get to the rim and then he would figure out what to do once he got there. I don't recall the variety of finishes that harden has or the ability to slow down/speed up as needed to react to a defender. he wasn't westbrook-level out of control, but he wasn't a curry/irving type finisher which I would put harden somewhat near to. and if you include drawing fouls as finishing, then harden is even more at another level.

 

Since Drexler was an elite athlete, he didn't need to be creative. He could simply rise over his opponent.

 

not only this, the league has changed to where if anyone touches harden, when he is driving forward with the ball it is a foul. remember when harden first came into the league and the defenders were all complaining that it wasn't a foul by simply touching him? they now know, that he gets star treatment, and by simply touching him when he is going forward with the ball, it may be a foul, which allows him to score those easy buckets a lot of time...and note, he's doing it the vast majority of the time when he is the one initiating or finishing the pick and roll, with the lane clear, which means there aren't many defenders sagging because we have great three point shooters. clyde didn't need the ball in his hands to cut to the rim off a screen or on the break, he could go over or around.

 

Disagree. Remember, Harden doesn't have any athletic advantages. He's able to go to the basket with so much success b/c the rules have changed (they now highly favor guards) and the Rockets have great spacing (b/c of the 3pt shooting of the SF and PF). He wouldn't have had these advantages in the 80's/90's.

To put that in perspective, look at Michael Jordan's first MVP season in 1988. Back then, his game predicated on attacking the basket. He averaged 40 mpg and attempted 10.5 free throws per game.

This season, Harden averaged 36 mpg and attempted 10.9 free throws per game.

Logically, Harden's game wouldn't translate well in the 80's.

 

this is exaclty right...let me go ahead and say this...if we somehow beat the warriors, i will gladly eat crow, and give james harden his props. steve nash never made it to the NBA finals, which is why i say, they are a regular season team...good enough to get lucky and get to the western conference finals. gets the fans all excited by putting up stats. but not good enough to get to the finals. unless we somehow add a two-way player who can initiate the offense in the post and also shoot the three. i don't think we can reach the finals, but i would be glad to be wrong. the NBA is weak this year, maybe someone will get hurt on the warriors before we face them.

 

harden has taken a ton of free throws his whole career, before he learned to get free throws off of 3 pointers, before he had 3 point shooters spacing the floor, even in okc before he was a star. he just knows how to get to the line. in an 80's league where free throws were more prevalent, it's hard to believe he's not taking tons of free throws.

and even ignoring that harden is still pretty quick and also very strong for an SG and has incredible handles, I wouldn't say athleticism was somehow more necessary in the 80's than now. it was a much less athletic league as a whole. without zones you could isolate people to death, and james harden would know what to do in isolation with more limited help-side ability.

 

Harden is big and has a 37" verical

 

In his final year in OKC, he averaged 6 free throws per game in 31 mpg. I wouldn't refer to that as "taking a ton of free throws". And there's no such time frame as "before he had 3 point shooters spacing the floor". We've always tried to surround him with shooters at the PF position. In his first year with us, our starting PF's were Patterson (two 3pt attempts per game at 36.5%) and Morris (3.6 3pt attempts per game at 38.1%).

Also, like I said before, plenty of fouls that are called nowadays wouldn't have been called in the 80's. And if Michael Jordan only averaged 10 FTA in the 80's, there's no way Harden would come close to that.

Were there many superstars from the 80's who weren't considered athletic freaks?

 

And yet no one ever said that he couldn't. The point was and still is that Harden is a better finisher. It's the same type of difference that exists between Gary Payton and Darvin Ham. Payton was the better finisher and Ham the better dunker. Really hoping that you don't equate dunks as being an entire player's arsenal when finishing around the basket. It's not that Drexler couldn't dunk on bigger players, it's that there will be situations where another type of finish is better (shot clock close to 0, Shaq-sized player, et al.). For those that would try to lower Harden's status as a way to settle this discussion, while we didn't have the wealth of video archives that we have now, we still have this wonderful thing called statistics. I never said that Drexler wasn't a great player, but if you want to see hows, some of these were probably lower than anything Harden has ever had. http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketbal...ets/players/clyde-drexler/bestworst/98/10/161

 

Why are you trying to pigeon-hole Drexler as being an exclusive dunker? He was also creative with his layups.

 

so you're only willing to give harden credit if he's the lone all star of the rockets and he gets to beat warriors with their all stars/former all stars kd steph klay draymond and andre?