BBALLBREAKDOWN: Is James Harden Breaking the NBA Rule Book?

But it's illegal to use your arms to play defense. When has that ever been legal? Alot of people use their hands and arms illegally on defense but for some reason only want to complain when Harden makes them pay for it...

 

i agree with the video, this is a clever play by james, but as more attention is paid to this, eventually refs are going to start call this an offensive foul, or stop calling it, i think it is a better idea to keep doing it this season, but from next season on, i think james has to come up with something else, otherwise he is going to be in trouble

 

bullshit, if Taj Gibson's hand is not extended out like that, harden easily blow past him. You cannot play defense with your hands like that, this is not football. Taj Gibson is about to hand check right there and Harden is making sure that when he does commit the foul that he is in a shooting motion. It's Gibson's fault

 

Spoiler

 

No it shouldn't. Taj should not have his arm out impeding the dribbler's progress. That's octopus defense... all arms. No coach teaches you to hook passing offensive players for a reason: it's illegal.

 

The hand check rule benefits offensive players. it is why basketball was much tougher in the 90s. When you can easily blow past your man and all they have to do is stick their arm out to check you and slow you down until they get back in position or the defense comes to help then that's all you got to do. once the NBA realized that playing defense with your hands like that, although it can look unintentional, 99% of the time it's very intentional and should be illegal.

Think about it in real life if somebody is about to blow past you and you're not in front of him are you just gonna grab/stop him with your hand and extended out? no, its not the NFL and Harden makes sure the NBA calls it. trying to get free throws out of it is smart.

 

Hand checking! I miss it.

 

what you guys don't realize is harden wasn't born with this knowledge. It came from being handchecked so damn much illegally in the NBA bcuz defenders could not stay in front of him and all he's doing is making sure that its called because if it is he will tear up the defense.

 

Gibson's arm isn't out; its down. Also, Gibson isn't hooking Harden. Harden is hooking Gibson.

There are plenty of instances where defenders are legitimately fouling Harden in similar scenarios. However, in this instance, it's an offensive foul.

 

Just like what Harden does is subtle...what Gibson did was also. If you watch the video you can clearly see what Gibson is trying to do...

 

that is the hand check rule though. your hand cannot be where Gibson's hand is if it impedes the progress of the offensive player. You have to stop the offensive player with good posiitoning of your body, not your hand.

anyone who doesn't know the rules needs to stop posting like they do.

you guys are blind if you think Gibson is playing good defense. He is clearly out of position about to get blown past by and he is using his hand to slow Harding down until the defense recovers

 

So what they are saying is the best way to defend anyone ever is simply stick your arm out into the area where he would rise up to shoot. Keep those arms out guys. Revolutionary way to defender. Sorry my arm was there first mr shooter.

Does James intentionally create these fouls? Yes. Does that mean the defender should be able to occupy the space of the shooter with his arm so the shooter can never even go up to create a shooting motion? You tell me.

 

Does that mean you'll stop posting?

It has nothing to do with the hand-checking. Absolutely nothing. Gibson is simply trying to step up and then retreat to give Roberson time to free himself from Ariza's screen. He doesn't get into Harden's personal space (which is what hand-checking is).

 

you cannot stop someone with your hand. According to what you are saying when someone shoots all you have to do is put your hand out and he cannot shoot anymore he has to go around it.

you can't play defense with your hands in this league. that would clearly benefit the defensive player. as someone who plays basketball i 100% support the handcheck rule. if you get beat you get beat. either take the foul or shut up and get scored on.

I know what Gibson is trying to do or at least making it look like he is trying to, but he is clearly out of position and about to foul harden and harden makes sure when he gets the contact that he is in shooting motion. Brilliant offensive play. Don't hand check

 

It's not the shooter's space until the shooter makes it his space, and for that to happen, the shooter needs to occupy that space with his torso.

In order for this to be a legitimate foul on Gibson, Gibson's left arm would need to be extended, and Harden would have to run through it with his torso. However, in plays like this, the help defender typically shows and retreats in order to give the primary defender time to recover from the screen. That's actually what's happening here. If you look at the picture, you'll see that Gibson's defensive stance is squared towards Ariza.



However, Harden isn't letting Gibson retreat. Harden has essentially grabbed Gibson's left arm to prevent him from retreating which is an offensive foul.

 

The simple fact of it in this league is the officials cannot predict when someone is in shooting motion or not. How many times have you seen someone get fouled and then just throw it up? You knew he was not trying to shoot that but he gets the call. And this is the exact same thing.

they change this rule than they have to go back and change the entire rule about deciding when NBA players are trying to shoot it and when they are not. they won't do that

 

So I can have my body way out and put my arm right down by his shooting arm so he can't come up with the shot. Harden hooks are still a shooting motion. He goes in for the "shot" when he sees that he can't. Again it is obvious Harden is the one choosing to "shoot" when the defenders arm is in his shooting space or how else can he go up for a shot and have the defenders arm lay across his all in one shooting motion? Are you saying that Harden's is not doing an actual shooting motion?

I am simply saying the by the anit Harden logic the best way to defend someone is reach your arm out just below their shooting shoulder so they can't swing up for a shot.

If you want to change any rule the one thing I could agree with is there should be a special set of rules for screens. Right now Harden is exploiting that a person can't fight over a screen without fouling. I simply disagree that a player can just stick his arm out onto another players body impeding a players ability to go up for a shot. Now if a player is impeding a shooting motion with his body that I feel is different but he shouldn't be able to do it with his arms. Arms can instantly occupy any space at any time. A person's body means he read the offense and moved accordingly.

 

I wish we could leave Harden out of this discussion. Rockets fans get defensive when the media is talking negative about Harden.

Can we just talk about this kind of move, be it Curry or Irving or Harden? There are two issues presented in the video.

1. When the offensive player hook the defender's arm when he reaches in, is it a defensive foul or an offensive foul?

2. When the offensive player throws the ball up AFTER he gets fouled (Nunn calls it "after thought"), should it be a shooting foul?

I think the answer to #1 depends on the situation. I am not going to comment.

Personally, I believe #2 should not be a shooting foul. Remember the so-called "rip through" move? Commentators used to say that it's a "savvy veteran" move. Then they decided that nobody really shoot the ball moving his arms sideway. So it's not a shooting motion and should not be a shooting foul. I agreed.

Long before Harden joined the Rockets, I have disliked offensive players initiating contact to get calls. I think it defies the spirit of basketball, just like the hack tactic defies the spirit of basketball. Offensive moves should be to maneuver around the defender in order to score, not create contact in order to get fouled.