If we have to listen all the whiners and naysayers complain and back seat manage constantly, then Buck and co. get to "police" the board
As I've stated Hinch has his line of thinking, and I have no problem with it. I'm not second guessing him, but to say that a case can't be made for a guy who said his shoulder hurt ALL last season, team up 4-1 in the 9th, and it's only the 20th game of the season? Suggesting that another option may have been to turn it over to the pen is crazy or even bringing it up is "whining"?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ryanno01.shtml Here is a link to Ryan's career stats. I know he was an exception as far as longevity goes but you make a great point that Keuchel is a finesse pitcher and likely not as much wear and tear.
Saying it is better to pull him even if it results in best starting pitcher punching manager or having to use s^&* to be whining. He's already pitched 7 innings in 4 straight starts. If shoulder or it being the 20th game mattered, he should have been pitching less already. On being up 4-1, Keuchel was pitching better in the 9th than most of our pitchers pitch in the first (maybe a slight exaggeration, but maybe not). 4-1 is a relatively low leverage situation for the ninth. Hinch left Keuchel in there while Keuchel had a little left and situation never got to point where a homer would lose the game (I was switching between Rockets and Astros between pitchers, if somehow a second guy got on, I would side with pulling Keuchel at that point). The highest leverage it got was probably with Kipnis at the plate as the tying run. I can see raising issue here due to situation, but Kipnis being a LHB does favor Keuchel. Astros have 4 pitchers that can't pitch deep into games. Unless Keuchel is no longer effective or situation is a high enough leverage that you want Giles or Devenski in there, Hinch has to get as many innings as possible from Keuchel.
I would also consider what I've done to be whining about whining. Team has best record in baseball and topic of conversation seems to be about what they should have done better more often than not. A night in which Astros and Rockets win and Rangers, Mariners, and Athletics lose should not be devoted to the many "screw ups" of Hinch. I get pissed off when I come to the BBS expecting a celebration and get this.
117 pitches, dear god. The human arm can't recover from that kind of torture. Hopefully he gets past this and is able to live a normal life. The I told you so's will be thoroughly amusing if he struggles in his next start.
Joe joe I certainly understand your thoughts on this, and as I have stated numerous times I have no problem with Hinch leaving him in there. He's the Mgr. Me pointing out what I would have done if I were in Hinch's shoes is just stating how I would have played it. Last I checked this is a fan forum where people share there opinions and you (or anyone else can disagree). I also stated I was happy about the win. Funny how people take that as whining or complaining.
Luhnow just on 790, said that Altuve didn't have any concussion symptoms and "could" play tonight. Teo's x-rays came back negative, no fractures. Bruising on the knee, might be out several days, probably going on DL and will call up someone from Fresno.
You can have a difference of opinion. People can disagree. My opinion is that statements like "So Hinch takes a punch to the gut. Who's the Mgr Keuchel or Hinch?" made in the heat of the moment is a whine especially considering situation when other posters were making even worse whines. I would not consider your posts this morning to be whines as they have a different tone. I am not immune.
You actually don't know what you would do in Hinch's shoes. As a manager, you deal with personalities as well as inning by inning strategy. As I mentioned before, Keuchel very gently complained about not going past 7 innings before and I am guessing the complaint was all about the KC game. Hinch may have been saying - "OK....you asked for it, now go do it".
So you're good if he's at 135 pitches as well in April, right? I mean come on that's just a measly 18 more pitches than last night or how about 150 pitches? Thirty-three more pitches is nothing. I mean dear god "The human arm can't recover from that kind of torture"?
Like I said, once you pointed out Keuchel's recent comments I certainly understood where Hinch was coming from.
Good for you! About time a lion roared and put him in his place. His overall behavior on these boards in unacceptable.
If it were a smooth 135, no it wouldn't bother me, although it would be on the high end given it would be well over his career high. I think the pitch count is a useful thing to keep track of, but what constitutes a heavy workload seems to be getting smaller every year. We are asking less and less of our pitchers now, but there's no good evidence that guys are stronger or more durable because of it. The occasional inflated pitch count when a guy is rolling doesn't bother me. Nor do I feel 100 pitches should be viewed as this brick wall.
