Harden 895 assist this season compared to K. Leonard 901 assists for his career

Punch up the stat where Kwahi has more blocks or steals than Harden has in his whole career . .. .
Does that stat exist?

Rocket River

 

now that's funny... jus sayin...

 

Y'all need to stay off twitter ... lol.

 

But Leonard is the second assist leader on a team that is 6th in team assists per game. It has a lot to do with the system he plays in.

I've said this in another thread. Not advocating Leonard for MVP. But just looking at assist numbers is just as silly as just looking at rebound numbers to determine who is MVP-worthy.

Anyway, if Leonard wins the MVP, he would be kind of like Billups and Iggy winning the finals MVP. These guys are great all- around players but don't have one thing that is better than everybody else.

 

Looking at Volume of assists to his teammates is silly too. Kashi has also played nearly 1000 more minutes than everyone other than LMA. By all measures other that Per Game, Kahluau is more like 5th or 6th in creating for others.

We are talking about the rarified air of MVPs. Duncan also played for Pops, with more assists in his MVP years. Parker and Ginobody had more in their prime with Pops and Duncan. Like I say, even Nowitzki had as much.

It is very valid to say his weakness to other MVP candidates is his lack of ability to create for others at an elite level. imo, you are using the Pops excuse to an extreme, when the lists of MVPs is like 40 who had more assists (all but Centers)....and he doesn't even stack up with the Big 3 Spurs of last decade.

Are you saying he has no weakness to others?

 

You can pair him up with playmakers. That is not a hard thing to achieve but Defense is fundamental.

Harden and WB do not seem to be capable of playing lock down Defense or at least good overall D.

They seem to spend most of their energy on Offense.

You are right about there is no overall talent that does everything great in the MVP race this year.

He is only 25 and I am thinking he might improve in the assist area.

He won't be very good but at least decent.

If it is true that the pace slows down in the playoffs drastically then moving the ball well is also important.

If the overall ball movement is good then do not worry about only one guy creating for others.

 

It's great and all but just not the same to compare. It's like those who say LeBron is a better passer than Jordan and Kobe. They both played in the triangle majority of their career and that systems never had a high assist man because it's a system for moving the ball instead of one man dominating it. Of course Jordan and Kobe had the passing vision and IQ to get 7-8 apg for their career if they played that style. For example, i'm more impressed by Bird's assist numbers over LeBron because Bird mostly got those assists from the elbow and short corners.

I do not think Kawhi is the type to run an offense through in that way where he has the ball in his hands all the time, i think he's perfect for the Spurs system and i think he'd be perfect with the Rockets and many other teams, but i can't see him carrying an offense with a high USG IMO. I'm not saying he's a system player, just not someone who can play like Harden, Lebron or Russ.

 

Leonard is on a team capable of winning a championship because it has multiple playmakers in its rotation, not just one guy and every possession runs through him when he's in there.

 

If you use per 36 minutes numbers, Leonard is still second among their starters. Even if you count all rotation players (say, anyone who plays more than 15 mpg, he is 4th behind Parker (PG), Mills (PG), and Ginobili (great passer who plays very limited minutes). And the Spurs is not a team that lacks assists. The fact that they do not have a player averaging more than 5 apg shows that they do not rely on a single player for play making. The reason Popovich uses this system is likely because they do not have an elite play maker other than Ginobili who can't play a lot.

BTW, your argument about volume actually works for Leonard. He plays only 33 mpg, which is very low among historically MVP-worthy players. His numbers would have been higher had he played close to 40 mpg like many MVP candidates do.

Not at all. I am saying he is a jack of all trade kind of guy who doesn't have one thing that is especially eye catching. Some might say his defense is top notch. That might be true. But individual defense is notoriously difficult to measure. Like I said, if Leonard is an MVP, he is like Billups and Igoudala, a super glue guy.

Play making is clearly not Leonard's strength. Is he a "bad" play maker, like Harden and Westbrook are "bad" defender? Hard to have an objective answer. Players like Harden, Westbrook, and Durant have clear elite skills that is traditionally valued as "star" attributes. Leonard does not. This is why people, including myself, don't feel inclined to think he is MVP-worthy.

Enough of this. I really don't care very much about the MVP thing. I especially don't care about triple doubles.

 

Kawhi is an elite defender turned into an elite offensive player by system

 

Harden a guard and Kawhi a forward, kind of an unfair comparison. Say we compare Leonard's season blocks to Harden's career blocks.

 

OK 55 blocks for Leonard this year to 274 career blocks to Harden

Still impressive that Harden has more assists this season than Leonard's whole career.

 

D'antoni