If you say so. Criticizing Islam doesn't help either, you just get pats on the back. And you cursed before I accused you of playing favorites, that's a fact. Because you wrote an absolute statement. You could have easily have said in your own words that Islam has peaks and valleys like that other major religion that I won't name, but you choose not to. It's not suddenly, frankly you only brought ISIS and Taliban killing their own ONCE. I didn't realize it was such a big deal to you and I answered and look at the meager response you put forth..... You completely ignored my explanation of why Iran is the way it is today, how can I take you seriously when you just WANT this to be about religion. It's a complicated issue that involves geopolitical actions. It absolutely does play a factor in religious based terrorism, a larger one than you care to admit or understand. By mentioning bad aspects of the bible, I am demonstrating to you and anyone reading that Islam isn't something unique in the grand scheme of things. The narrative you want is a very simple, naive one that doesn't begin to explain what's happening in the world. Why don't you want to acknowledge the geopolitical forces that enables instability that is too often filled with either narco-terrorist groups in Latin America or religious extremists in Africa, Middle East, and SE Asia? I am truly baffled by your stance. If you just want the narrative to be Islam is bad because of the Quran then just say so.
That's what I thought, you want a simple narrative while I look at the big picture with multiple moving parts. You have a nice day as well.
Yung-T, I think spending a lot of time responding to "dmoneybangbang" is unfortunately like talking to a chimp. Not much going on between the ears there.
No.... like YungT you just want this to be a simple issue where Islam is always the villain because their religion demands it. From narco- countries to religious extremism, the West has had a hand in creating the instability for those type of systems to take hold. Continue to ignore history and geopolitics since it's convenient.... I'm proud that I can understand complex issues. If I'm chimp than you are an insect.
I'll bring it up then. Look at this murderous idiocy in the Bible. Numbers 15:32-36 The Bible can go toe-to-toe with the Quran for murderous idiocy any day of the week. Be an equal opportunity bigot, why dontcha?
The 16th and 17th century wars between Protestants and Catholics in France have absolutely nothing to do with the Egyptian bombing nor do they have anything to do with the hundreds of other bombings and shootings by these same kind of people. A problem cannot be solved if the problem cannot be thought out nor expressed. How then would one ever hope to solve a problem which cannot be expressed? If I were to make a comparison to the Protestant Reformation, then it would be this: Reformationists, through the introduction of information technology, sought to distance themselves from the more literal, skewed, and uncompromising beliefs of the Catholic Church. This distancing - the introduction of a new interpretation of Christian faith in Europe - was violent. However, today in parts of North Africa, Middle East, and South Asia, the opposite seems to be occurring: The introduction of information technology is being used to propagate a literal, skewed, and uncompromising version of Islam.
Well Yung-T thought it was important for me to answer why Muslims were killing Muslims and I did answer it, a religious civil war..... Please follow along the conversation..... Well don't you think the power of information technology can be used to do the opposite? It has been tried in fact but it was brutally suppressed. Have you already forgotten about the Green Revolution in Iran? Or Egypt? Or Syria? And let's not act like the Protestants were some sort of do gooders, they were also uncompromising and used their god to justify imperialism and the Atlantic slave trade for example.
Because you at first questioned me for mentioning that violence is a part of Islam and instead pointed fingers at the West, which makes no sense. In the end, you still had to admit that it was mainly about a "religious civil war", debunking your own statements. Seems you didn't actually read his post, he explicitly mentioned violence during the protestant reformation. And using god to "justify imperialism and the Atlantic slave trade" has absolutely nothing to do with the actual historical roots of Protestantism. It really seems you have to put words in everyone's mouths in order to debate, it's incredibly annoying and insincere.
I'm not the least bit involved in your conversation with Yung-T or whomever else. Now you are going off on tangents again when it becomes convenient to abandon your argument. Why are you incapable of accepting or distributing criticism of a single religion absent of the same for other religions? For some reason, I feel that if this were a thread that were critical of Christianity, you would likely hesitate to include other religions in your criticism of Christianity.
No, you just jump into the conservation without context and latch onto something I said in response to the other poster.... What am I missing here? Furthermore, I even answered your question to which you then accuse me of going off on an tangent.... What am I missing here? I'm not interested in pats on the back and empty criticism. How does being ignorant serve a greater purpose? I absolutely support military action against Islamic extremists, but I think more like how current General McMasters believes: Trump's new national security adviser: Saying 'radical Islamic terrorism' is counterproductive To edit: Once we've gotten a better handle on the extremist issues, we can work on the women's right and LBGT issues that plague Islam in modern society as well, However, the priority is stability.
I questioned you for making an absolute statement as we've already discussed. Nothing was debunked and nothing "was admitted in the end" . I am asking and not putting words in your mouth here..... there can't multiple factors involved? What do you think I mean when I said you were looking for simple answers? Western imperialism in these last 3-4 centuries created widespread poverty and instability in what is today's third world by propping up and disposing of leaders who had favorable positions. Violence between rival sects historically thrives in these type of unstable conditions. All of this ties together. I did read his post. I can't add to the violence? That's the pot calling the kettle black. Again.... I specifically talk about Islam.... and again about recent history in Islamic countries in Iran, Egypt, and Syria and you and Rojo completely ignore it and just focus on what I said about Protestants. Stop playing the blame game. You choose to ignore points while latching onto something else I said and creating a narrative of your own.
Some people just need to admit that they have an absolutist position about Islam that won't allow for shades of gray.
No, you always end up talking about Christianity and Imperialism while not addressing the original points about religion at all. Suddenly talking about Christianity and creating new points (Protestantism and its connection to Imperialism, slavery) isn't answering any question, you're creating a fake debate that has nothing to do with what the other side is talking about. The idiotic “pats on the back“ statement seems to be your only way of addressing this now. Saying that crap or calling something “empty criticism“ just because you can't debunk his position isn't productive at all and shows that you don't want to actually debate with us. Again with the “absolute statement“ crap, if you can't debunk my statement then don't respond. Of course the statement is absolute if it's a fact that you can't deny. I don't even think you know what “absolute“ means, it surely doesn't change my statement on “throughout history“ into “every second of Islam, with no highs or lows“. Which still has absolutely nothing to do with religious reasons or the content of the Quran. Rightfully so, as you always come up with new things that suit your narrative and don't provide an actual reply to our posts. You're describing your whole debating style here. Which we aren't doing at all, it's just that you come up with a fake narrative and don't want to talk about religion itself. But not addressing this and acting like we're saying “it's 100% on Islam and we f****in hate it ahhh“ seems to be the only way that you can comprehend this issue for yourself. So again, you are constantly coming up with bs that had absolutely nothing to with our posts or your previous statements, as soon as it suits your point. All while coming up with nonsense interpretations and accusations that aren't backed by our statements at all. For fs sake, please try to hold this debate by actually responding to points that are brought up (and no, you suddenly bringing up unrelated things and wanting an answer doesn't mean we are avoiding them, but you're not addressing the religion itself), don't come up with fake statements from us and stick to Islam, the actual topic. Otherwise this is just a huge distraction from the topic itself and dishonest.
Have you considered your points are just too simple? And I've been addressing the points about religion, you just don't like me comparing it that other major religion while talking about the geopolitical and socioeconomic factors that enables fundamentalism to fill a vacuum. Comparison is often used when discussing complex issues. No I've said it before to other posters looking for simple answers. And I've debunked the position. I already gave my thoughts on your statement and clearly you don't like it. Talk about putting words in my mouth with hyperbole, "every second". Your average person in the West didn't care about Islam until the twin towers towers fell 15 years ago. Can you honestly say you know about as much about Islam today as a decade ago? Because it's not the simple answer you are looking for. Plenty of people have no issue committing any violence and adhering to the Quran and too many people use the Quran to commit violence and oppress their fellow man. Do I get bonus points for rhyming? I'm sorry complicated issues have multiple moving parts. Perhaps you should start with the answer you want and we can work backwards? Just admit you are looking for specific answers. I refuse to engage in your ignorance about the factors surrounding this entire issue. For whatever reason you SEEM to think only religion affects religion. Then why does discussing the geopolitical and socioeconomic factors upset you? They aren't excuses, they are explanations. No... I am pretty sure I am quoting your statements and responding to them as I am doing now. That's the thing.... they aren't unrelated, you just think they are. I've responded to the points, you just don't like my answer. The topic itself? Okay, how about you respond to the Muslim on Muslim killing I've addressed several times by bringing up Iraq and Iran. Or the Shia vs Sunni rift? Or how about let's talk about the history of Syria and Egypt over the last 40 years? Or how about you just give me the exact topic YOU wish to discuss?
Q: "Mr. dmoneybangbang, let us discuss violence in the Quran". dmoney: "Okay, so let us look at Christianity and the complex geopolitical situations in this world, but not at the Quran. I will also assume that you have a clear agenda against Islam and are playing favourites, although you've never said it." 10/10 would read again.
http://m.cairoscene.com/BusinessAndPolitics/Egypt's-15-Richest-Men This topic spins in circles ,a bit boring so to speak, feel bad for cohete,those who likes what he says are the same people having a laughter at his faith
Impossible for you guys to stay on topic and actually debate, isn't it? Our faith has nothing to do with this.
Close your eyes, and imagine this : ISIS political party swept United Muslims State election, on promises to make killing great again, no mentally ill criminal stays without innocesnt victims, pressure Russia to fix their killing monopoly ...yada yada Once that happens,blame all Muslims/Qur'an
