[Demographics] Muslim Population To Exceed Christian Population In 2060, European Births In 2035

Well they did for a very long time, but many Christians luckily lived in temperate climates with more natural resources and the stars aligned and those places became hot beds for capitalism and consumerism and living a 'western lifestyle' and most of them eventually forgot about their stong convictions because suddenly living on this planet seemed more worthwhile than some hypothetical future of eternal life that you can't see or prove.

 

I am not saying shun all of them. I am saying that if you want to achieve what you say can be achieved, you can only allow immigration from that cultural background in small cultural doses, or you will end up with ghettos, and the opposite of a westernization. See: Molenbeek in Brussels, suburbs of Paris, etc.

When you have a percentage of Muslims such as in the USA, chances that they will eventually become Westernized are higher than with the percentage (and type of) Muslim you find in Europe. I think some of you US Muslims would be shocked at what is actually being preached in European mosques.

Yes, it's different. The States already do a pre-selection and vetting, so they get the "better" and more educated Muslims. In Europe, the floodgates were open and what we got was, sorry to say, a lot of the scum of the earth, especially from North African countries and places like Afghanistan. Basically people who were never equipped to be productive members of society even in those places. Again, not all of those who came in, some are legitimate refugees and some are highly educated, but a large percentage.

 

I think you are wrong and I would say that the evidence of successful capitalistic societies in Christian majority nations vs any other religion would lead most others to think you are wrong as well.

We have shown a few nations how to succeed as capitalist after we either kicked their butts in a war or freed them from oppressive governments. We also have a few examples of countries that we have tried to do the same thing that were majority muslim and they just never get there.

You may be right and I may be wrong but the evidence as I see it tends to lean in my favor.

 

Thank you dumbartonbass.

I think the part of Berlin you stayed in was most likely Kreuzberg. What you were told is mostly accurate. The Turks in Berlin are a problem (of course not all of them, I have Turkish friends from Kreuzberg), but not as much as the recent influx of Muslims from North Africa. Violence and crime in Kreuzberg (especially in the area around "Kottbusser Tor") have gone way, way up, as well as Muslim radicalism.

I don't know what is to be done. Once people are in, it is extremely hard to get them out again. The main thing that needs to be done is to control the future influx. With those who are in and have a right to stay, we need to do our best to integrate them.

 

Can you name some intrinsic qualities of Christian doctrine that allows individuals to desire a capitalist market relative to faiths such as Hinduism or Buddhism? That would be a great starting point to prove your assertion that only because of Christianity we have capitalism today.

 

As soon as you can get some freedom of thought in predominantly Muslim countries their mythology will begin to die out too.

This is cyclical - Egyptian gods, Summarian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman - all religion eventually collapses under it's own weight.

Myths can't be sustained.

DD

 

I don't see how can an Israeli bootlicker promote freedom,or a military coup dreamer want to preach democracy, totally fake!

 

strawman but whatever...

Render unto Cesar what is Cesar's and render unto God what is God's. This separates government and religion and allows for a separation of church and state.

Christianity also puts the ownership of a person's salvation solely in that person's hands and nothing anyone else does can change that other than to tell them about their walk with God. The government can't force salvation on you. Some have tried in the past but Christianity just really doesn't allow for this so unless you can control the distribution of the word and thus the interpretation a government that tries to use Christianity to control the people will not get much help from the word. This also creates a society that believes in personal responsibility which is a critical component of a successful capitalist society. The Jewish society is similar in this regard.

There are no violent ways into heaven according to Christ unless that is to sacrifice yourself for someone else.

Lastly, love your neighbor as yourself forces a Christian to a moral position to give others the benefit of the doubt and have conversations like the one we are having that would get you killed according to some other religions.

Regardless, all of the above may be BS so I go back to the examples we have in this world.... maybe it's all a bunch of luck like you seem to think. I'm just wondering when a muslim nation is going to get lucky and allow freedom for ALL to be the center of who they are?

 

The timeline of your rhetoric doesn't make sense. Your version of Christianity you do know is relatively new? This 'personal relationship with god' thing came during the Great Reformation right? Christian majority regions during that before that era were still the dominant powers back then.

You also contradict yourself with the 'Jewish society' thing because isn't Judaism based on the Old Testament which doesn't have much of that hippie dippie stuff?

It still doesn't answer the question of how Christianity INTRINSICALLY promotes capitalism? How does it any more than that Buddhism?

And your argument about how the West force feed capitalism to Japan and Korea also contradicts your premise because 'showing' them capitalism doesn't mean automatic success. Japan and Korea are still predominantly atheist nations? How were they able to not only sustain capitalism but FLORISH to the point of being two of the world's greatest economic powers without hardly ANY Christian background. In fact the Japanese have a rather dark history of how they handled their small Christian population.

Yes, location of natural resources and climate had SOME role to play in Eurocentric/American domination.

 

The only argument I see in your post is "Because we are the same arbitrary faith, we form an alliance".

K, so what's intrinsic about Christianity that promotes Capitalism?

 

Capitalism as we know it is relatively new.

The Jewish comment was strictly related to the personal responsibility argument.

Both of the societies you reference had a VERY strong desire to succeed like the US at the time so those capitalist societies were built on that desire to be like us and as such have been influenced by our Christian values and principles. You'll notice I only said we helped to establish those capitalist societies, I didn't say they were Christian. Not having a strong belief system that undermines what was being built certainly didn't hurt.

Yes, we had a good plot of land but so have lots of other countries that have failed miserably over and over for centuries.

 

First of all, the guy's name is not Cesar.
Second, Caesar represents the mortal world (oh, and the Romans killed Jesus, by the way), and Jesus opposed Caesar's world.
Third, you are wrong that Christianity puts salvation in one's own hands: see the Catholic church. What do you think confession and excommunication are about?

I agree with you that violence will not help you get to heaven. So let's stop killing foreigners, eh?
And "love your neighbor as yourself": don't machine gun your neighbor/yourself; don't blow up your neighbor's kids/your own kids.
Oh, and let's stop crucifying ourselves! We are the Roman executioners.

Texas crucifixion machine

 

You didn't mention any intrinsic qualities of Christianity. You just noted alliances and break ups... k?

 

I think the demographic explains a lot of the conflict we have with the Islamic world right now, that there is a hegemonic struggle here where Muslim civilization is trying to achieve a position in the world commensurate with their potential. Don't know how much I care since I'll be dead or nearly so by 2060, but I expect the world will look a lot different by then than the world I was born into. The Muslim world will be a whole lot more consequential in world politics, the Chinese will be powerful, and hopefully the United States and Europe age gracefully.

 

Actually it's KAIΣAΡ but I really don't care... and I have no idea what any of the rest of your post is trying to communicate.

 

$5 the agnostic/atheist population outnumbers them both by 2060. And by 2100, the church of Luke skywalker will have a strong presence.