Russia hired 1,000 people to create anti-Clinton 'fake news' in key US states during election

They want to change the issue into something else that they can attack and thus avoid the real issue which they can not win. Typical strawman.

 

It's hilarious how mad the liberals are in this thread. Yet they still have no proof. The frustration is palpable.

 

Because you are ignoring the proof, doesn't mean the proof isn't there. It's been leaked, but I understand why you can't bring yourself to look at it, or try and rationalize it out of your mind without once giving any reason why the proof is invalid.

I get that this persona you've created won't allow you to admit solid evidence when it goes against the 'team' you've chosen to support.

 

Again, in your desperation to defend your support and vote, you are dishonest. The question being investigated isn't whether or not Russia changed votes, but whether Russia attempted to influence the US election, and whether the Trump campaign worked with the Russians to do this. the first part has already been proven, the second is under investigation.

Now you can continue your defense of Trump, but at least be honest about what is being investigated.

 

So has the Trump Golden Shower story been confirmed yet? Has Mother Jones confirmed it? Just lol

 

'defend your support' makes no sense and I didn;t vote for Trump.

Then why did you respond to the question 'what fake news swayed the election' with links ? your answer should of been 'none'

Again, next time wait for others to answer if you aren't sure how to answer.

 

Hi guys, thanks for the replies, even if we disagree. I'll sign off for a bit after this. Gotta work all day.

@tallanvor, I guess you and I differ. I cannot prove that Russian meddling did or did not influence the election. I think the effect was minor, if any, but you cannot prove or disprove psychological impact. Where we differ is that I do not need for Russian meddling to have been absolutely demonstrably effective for me to care about it. You appear to need what is impossible: proof that a psychological campaign influenced key voters (or non-voters, importantly) in the Midwest. That's impossible to prove, so you will never care, apparently. Okay. That's definitely your right. I would also suggest you save yourself even more time and quit caring that others care. LOL.
In terms of what to do? If we can get all our various politicians to admit it's fundamentally important, we can do our best to prevent it. I'm not a cyber security expert or anything like that. Here's an interesting article on what needs to be done. It appears to be a tall order, but I think it's worth doing the best we can to curtail foreign powers trying to meddle in our elections.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politi...ling-When-Russia-returns-will-the-US-be-ready

@Space Ghost, several points.
1. Yes, very little evidence *released* but everyone who has seen the evidence seems to be alarmed. They are then all stupid or all conspiring to mislead the public. I think neither option is likely, so I believe the evidence must be alarming, especially based on the testimony (Senate) of the last few days.
2. I think it's a false equivalence you make between our activity and that of Russia, but even if it's equivalent, I don't historically approve of our meddling. I think it's done more harm than good in the world, despite our best intentions. I can criticize both, thank you very much. And I am free to worry more about dictatorships meddling in our elections, than us meddling in a dictatorship's elections. You can call that hypocritical, but I am an America first type of guy in that way, and many other ways. So sue me.
3. No I don't expect Russia to "do nothing," but according to long-time intelligence experts, this was a whole new level of interference. I expect us to fight it in whatever ways we can at multiple levels. But again, this means a majority of our government admitting it's a unwelcome problem and, with any luck, people abandoning the useless mantra "Hillary lost. Get over it." As we keep saying, yes, she sucked and she lost and good riddance, goodbye. Now let's deal with the remaining big problem.

 

you can ask people why they voted for Trump over Hillary. polling. If they respond 'Hillary is running a child sex ring out of a pizza shop', then you would have your answer. Nobody will give you this answer. Same way we determine the impact of any political event.

I think hundreds of countries put out false stories about the US. Watch North Korean tv. I have no desire to respond to it and wonder what type of response you would like.

You act like this is the first election with false news. Does Rathergate not ring a bell? And that was an actual real news organization.

Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about a British intelligence officer making a fake dossier about Trump peeing on women? Maxine Waters is still spreading this story.

Finally, just the notion that you can stop a country from telling a story is nuts. That article you posted suggests nothing to convince me otherwise.

 

You can't even be honest here about who you voted for. How do you expect people to be believe anything else you post?

 

It was actually infowars, I was wrong, the more conspiratorial far right wing "news" outlet.

https://www.infowars.com/fbi-files-...ter-have-vanished-from-the-national-archives/

Clinton pedophillic satanoic network...

https://www.infowars.com/fbi-exposes-clinton-pedophile-satanic-network/

Both Breitbart and Infowars (among others) pushed the Clinton "crime family" narrative:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...cial-calls-bill-hillary-clinton-crime-family/

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/05/04/rush-clinton-crime-family-scam-has-been-exposed/

None of these are presented as opinion pieces but news. These are the type of trash articles that create a particular narrative in their sum total.

There was no one story that swayed voters... it was a concerted effort for many years of pushing negative stories and pushing bogus inquiries into "controversies" like Benghazi. There was a very clear right wing agenda to go after Clinton for the past 4 years by using right wing media. It's amusing when folks complain about MSM media bias, but the right wing media is far more negative and conspiratorial. Both sides are guilty of seeking an echo chamber, but the right is far more conspiratorial.

Lastly, there are multiple reasons why Clinton lost (one being she didn't lie enough like Trump) but fake news/BS narratives. It's ironic that BS was an effective factor considering the "crooked hillary" narrative and Trump's continuing lack of ethics.

 

You just defend his campaign then?

 

Technology has just made fakenews far more targeted, savvy, and ubiquitous. And what does that say that the right wing moreso resorted to tactics used by dictators and strongman this election cycle? Interesting the Trump campaign had folks with ties to those type of leaders and political parties in Eastern Europe (Ukraine, Turkey and Russia).

 

What are you talking about? Putting out propaganda in ones own country is normal and isn't disguised as something other than what it is. But no, it is not normal to target other nation's elections with fake stories. You can try and pretend it is normal, because that's all you have left I guess. I honestly don't know why you'd do that.

Rathergate was not an intentional made up story. It was a wrong and sloppy job, and it was admitted to be wrong and sloppy journalism. Again that isn't anything at all like what happened with the fake news targeting the 2016 election.

Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about claiming the dossier was fake? You do understand that while the information in the dossier hasn't been verified the dossier has not been proven to be fake either. Why do you keep acting like it has? In fact some things from the dossier have ended up being verified. That still doesn't mean that everything in it was true, but at least part of it has since been verified. Quit making bogus claims as if they are fact.

Also it appears you don't understand how intelligence dossiers work. When the agents put together dossiers they aren't following the confirmation from two sources rule of journalism. They are putting together information that they know is not verified but is the talk that they've picked up while doing their jobs. That's what a dossier is.

I don't think media outlets should have put that information out there since they couldn't verify the information. That being said, you are ignoring the fact that most of them admitted it wasn't verified while they were publicizing it.

That being said, the dossier has not been shown to be a fake. It is sad that you are putting out so much misinformation in just one post. We deserve better.

 

I think they are ok with Russia interference because Republicans benefited so it appears. Really the question to me isn't whether or not Russia changed the outcome of the election (maybe they did maybe they did not), but rather how much of a voice do we want to give fake news and was Trump complicit in what Russia was doing?

 

That's exactly it. But they'll keep pretending that the argument being made is that Trump stole the election. They will make that argument because that's the only one they can defend.

They are guilty of ignoring evidence, making up false scenarios about the United States supposedly regularly doing the same thing that Russia did, propping up fake evidence that supports Trump's claims of a bogus wire tap ordered by Obama. And the list just keeps on growing.

 

I think the way to look at it is that in Russia, there is about 1/3 of the people who think Putin is great and that he can do no wrong. 1/3 of people who think Obama was evil and a treacherous liar - they believe in all the propaganda Putin puts out.

And we have our 1/3 in this country that believes in whatever Infowars and Breitbart put out. Nothing you or I saw, no amount of evidence or anything will change that. Afterall Breitbart has been saying that Russia is good - they are white people and not a bunch of brown folks so in a way, it's good if Russia takes control. The alt-right doesn't mind Russia, they mind minorities.

 

I'm just proud that I live in a country(USA) that would never be involved in any kind of disinformation campaign. Because that would just be wrong.

God bless America.

 

I know you were being sarcastic, and of course the United States has done worse. However, we still aren't guilty of what the Russians did, and haven't done worse for decades. The game of trying to pretend like the United States does what Russia did all the time, isn't accurate and won't fly.

 

How do you know we aren't guilty of doing what the Russians did? Maybe the USA just hasn't been caught. The CIA doesn't go around advertising all the things they do in secret. Right?

 

Does it matter in the discussion of how pervasive and effective the Russian hacking/troll campaign was in undermining our election process? Do our past transgressions, real or imagined, excuse Russia in the name of "we do it too"?