1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Did Kawhi just take the MVP from Harden tonight?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by swyyyguy, Mar 6, 2017.

  1. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Likes Received:
    18,100
    Last night was his best game offensively. Last night was also his best game defensively. Last night he played the best basketball, all around, than he ever has. He hasnt played better defense or offense.

    And yes, the difference between their playmaking is actually bigger than the gap between their defense.

    I'm sure your still stuck on 2014 defensive low-light but he isn't that defender anymore. He's average. Below average on the perimeter and above average in the post.

    Hardens playmaking/facilitating among the best OF ALL TIME, whereas Kawhi is at best average at it.

    In reality, the gap between playmaking dwarfs the gap between defense.
     
    JVL713 likes this.
  2. omgTHEpotential

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Messages:
    7,510
    Likes Received:
    6,043
    Nonsense. You're talking out of your ass.
     
  3. Angkor Wat

    Angkor Wat Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    13,150
    Likes Received:
    997
    you can win MVP based on one game? nah
     
    Stormy1234 likes this.
  4. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Likes Received:
    18,100
    Not nonsense. Your talking out of your ass which is why you resulted to petty insult.

    You want to bash Harden because you want to be upset at something.
     
  5. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    23,961
    Likes Received:
    14,562
    No you can't.

    That's why this game will be forgotten after we beat Utah Wednesday.

    It's all going to wash away.
     
  6. omgTHEpotential

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Messages:
    7,510
    Likes Received:
    6,043
    26 ppg on almost 50/40/90 shooting coupled with elite defense. Not one game.
     
  7. watashi315

    watashi315 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2002
    Messages:
    1,614
    Likes Received:
    236
    Kawhi is a winner in every way, just like the Spurs organization. He was a Finals MVP, a NBA champ, and 2x DPOY. Harden has nothing in the trophy case so far except lots of potential. In order to be considered on the same level as Leonard, Harden has to actually put some metal in his trophy case.
     
    roxallways, 1Deep and omgTHEpotential like this.
  8. omgTHEpotential

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Messages:
    7,510
    Likes Received:
    6,043
    Don't be a p***y. I wasn't bashing you - I was just calling you out for talking out of your ass. Because you were.
     
  9. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43,847
    Likes Received:
    30,172
    This is pretty much a fact. Especially if he loses for the opposite reasoning he lost last time.

    Kawhi at least makes sense, though still somewhat silly since it'd basically ignore the first 2 months of the season when he wasn't even remotely in the picture. If Westbrook wins it then it's true that Harden is hopeless.
     
    Stormy1234 likes this.
  10. DCkid

    DCkid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2001
    Messages:
    9,660
    Likes Received:
    2,704
    Yeah, he's going to get it from both ends now.
    • People will vote for Westbrook for MVP because of triple double.
    • People will vote for Kawhi for MVP because sole best player on best team.
    • Harden's case lies in between these two cases, which requires more explaining to a voter with a short attention span.
     
    J Sizzle likes this.
  11. Stormy1234

    Stormy1234 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,991
    Likes Received:
    5,854
    Me to Harden that's why the window is now to win.
     
  12. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43,847
    Likes Received:
    30,172
    Last bullet point is very true. Harden's looking like he won't wind up 1st on many ballots. Plenty of 2nd's and 3rd's.
     
  13. Obito

    Obito Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10,683
    Likes Received:
    3,804
    Does anyone bash their MVP candidate as much as we do?
     
  14. omgTHEpotential

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Messages:
    7,510
    Likes Received:
    6,043
    Who is bashing? I think we can all agree that he's a great player. Not just good, but great. It's just that there are currently A FEW greater players than him.
     
  15. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    75,255
    Likes Received:
    124,502
    I only frequent clutchfans.net, so it's hard to know for sure.
     
    Obito and BigMaloe like this.
  16. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Likes Received:
    18,100
    How am I talking out of my ass? Because I'm not spewing nonsense.

    Harden is one of the best facilitators of all time this season. The year he is having is unquestionably on of the best.

    It is better than anything Nash did. It is only rivaled by the best of Magic Johnson.

    To combine hardens scoring prowess, along with his faciltating and domination of defenses , is something hardly ever seen.

    Look at it this way. Harden tonight went up against the #1 defense and the best individual perimeter defender last night.

    He torched them. He shot incredibly efficient and almost single handed won the game. He found multiple open looks that resulted in misses as well as directly accounted for over half the offensive output.

    The best defense in the league.

    That's not something to scoff at.

    Kawhi was fantastic. Offensively he went against a mediocre defense that really wasn't that great tonight, and honestly the best defender he faced last night was Harden who played him well, and a bit of Gordon. Not taking anything away because he played great and efficient and hit a huge shot against NeNe.

    He also had a series of possessions where he stumped Harden in the 3rd until harden was able to correct his play to the defensive switch. Bravo, really, I think this is what won the game and not the block.

    That was Kawhi best game of his career, both offensively and defensively. He's really on a tear right now. He's balling out his mind in recent games.

    That said, it doesn't touch hardens best game at all. He doesn't directly impact games nearly at the level as harden, even if you want to blindly keep harping defense even though Harden has stepped his defense up to be an average defender.

    Fwiw, pop has Kawhi studying Harden and molding his game after Harden.

    Tl; dr ? I'm "spewing nonsense" :rolleyes:
     
  17. Angkor Wat

    Angkor Wat Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    13,150
    Likes Received:
    997
    but to say KL took the mvp based on tonight, which some are saying, is basing it on one game. I still don't see how he's MVP over Harden. Harden is having the much more impact on the season. Spurs have a much better roster than Houston and Harden has his team right behind them. You replace KL with Harden on the Rockets and I don't think they are as successful.
     
    Stormy1234 likes this.
  18. omgTHEpotential

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Messages:
    7,510
    Likes Received:
    6,043
    Where are you getting this 'average defender' narrative from? Harden is 392nd out of total of 455 players in the whole league in DRPM. That's not average. He's 72/80 among all SGs.
     
  19. eslate22

    eslate22 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    819
    Likes Received:
    746
    stephen a just said he still has kawhi 4th behind harden, westbrook, lebron
     
    Stormy1234 likes this.
  20. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,432
    Likes Received:
    13,390
    How many games would the Spurs win if you replaced Kwahi with average SF?
    I think the over/under would be at 50.
    This doesn't downplay Kwahi's skills.
    The difference between 50 and a championship run is Kwahi.
    But without Kwahi that's still an amazing team.
    Not because of the talent... because of the system, the culture, the organization, the coach.

    As much as I was against the MDA hire originally, it's also why I'm pretty excited about the hire long-term. They have a system, an identity now. One that matches the owner and the GM... and oh, yeah, the star player. But even without Harden, you have to have that backbone. And the Rockets have it, and now just need to figure out how to get over the hump.
     
    Stormy1234 likes this.

Share This Page