James Harden is gonna get screwed over again in MVP Voting

A small but imo representative pool from pre-season:

 

Weird. I guess we will forget that Harden averages 8 more assist a game. Carry a bigger load? Its really not arguable. But if you insist, please make your case.

 

As @Wylo pointed out, Greenberg's WaPo article is very good.



I wonder if Westbrook is in danger with his assists and he goes crazy assist hunting in the last few games, if voters will really key in on that, and take a step back on giving RW the MVP vote when they see how lame it is to just base it on those numbers.

 

The only way Harden can lock up the MVP is if the Rockets can get 60 wins and/or pass the Spurs for the 2 seed.

Otherwise there's really no way of knowing who will win until they announce it. If Westbrook stays the 7th seed or loses the triple double, he should be out. If Kawhi stays at the 2 seed and keeps the same numbers, I don't see enough people voting him number 1 on their ballots. LeBron doesn't have the wins/stats/storyline to surpass Harden

 

The gap between Kawhi's defense and Harden's defense is just as big (if not bigger) as that between Harden's play-making ability and Kawhi's. And the numbers simply don't suggest Harden is significantly more important for his team than Kawhi is at this point :

Usage rate :

Harden 33.9
Kawhi 31.3

RPM :

Kawhi 6.06
Harden 5.52

On/OFF Net Rating :

Harden +1.4
Kawhi +1.0

 

I have no problem with the notion that kawhi is every bit the MVP that harden is.

I think harden, kawhi and Lebron are all worthy

 

Yeah, but at the end of the day Harden has less support and is putting up better numbers than Kawahi by a large margin. Offense always has had a bigger factor in to the MVP award as well.

 

If Kawhi won it over Harden I wouldn't be upset. He is every bit of an MVP player this year (if not more) than Harden and is absolutely deserving of the award. If the Spurs run away with the number 1 spot and best record in the NBA, he absolutely is the MVP.

 

I'm starting to give up. I'm starting to really think Harden will lose the MVP because of 2 rebounds.

The OKC Westbrook's have lost 3 in a row to lottery teams and Harden has won 2 games convincingly against the Clippers and Memphis, yet the thing that is dominating the TV landscape, is how Cuban doesn't think Westbrook in an MVP candidate. Cuban said Westbrook wasn't an MVP candidate, then his team goes out and demolishes Westbrook. What is going on here?

Amin, who I thought was a supporter of Harden and the MVP, on ESPN's The Jump, just said Westbrook is MVP if he makes it into the playoffs and averages a triple double. The goal posts have been changed from 4-5 seed for Westbrook, to just getting in the playoffs...

Harden has a major uphill battle. He needs (more) wins over the West elite. It start today.. Spurs, GSW and The Westbrook's are must wins sadly.

Another Player's MVP is unacceptable.

 

San Antonio did have better supporting cast pre-Lou Williams acquisition. I don't know if we can make that argument anymore when we have two leading sixth man of the year candidates off the bench.

You are right in saying that historically MVP has been more about offense than defense (because generally individual offense is more impactful than individual defense), and I do give Harden an edge on that point.

If I have a vote, I would give it to Harden. Not because I'm a Rockets fan, but because he objectively has the strongest case IMO. All I'm saying is Kawhi is not far behind, and if the Spurs pull off the #1 seed, then I can easily see huge momentum gaining for Kawhi's MVP push.

 

Someone else mentioned it earlier. There is a wide range of opinions out there right now, but Harden is mentioned as the MVP or top two by almost every media member.

Right now you have people split on Westbrook even being in the top three or if Kawahi is in there.

Harden has the consistency on his side here.

 

LOL, "just getting into the playoffs" SMH.

 

Chris Broussard recently said that all Russ would have to do is get to 50 wins and then you'd have to give it to him because of the triple double...I'm sitting there like "wtf?"

The most ridiculous thing about Westbrook's MVP campaign is that if his assists fell to like 9.8 a game, then he would no longer be in the running. Nobody wants to bring up that Harden is almost averaging a triple double as well, and his team has 9 MORE WINS.

 

An individual can impact the offensive side of the ball a lot more than one person can impact a teams defensive success though.

That makes hardens superior offense more valuable than kawhis superior defense IMO

 

How many people really question whether Russ should be top 3? I've barely seen any. Most people I hear whether on TV or on podcasts are talking up Westbrook. Granted, Idk how many of these people will actually have a vote, so maybe more of the actual voters have Harden as the MVP but just aren't vocal about it.

 

To what degree does Harden have less support? The production/health we've gotten from Gordon/R.Anderson has essentially been the best case scenario. Beverley is having the best year of his career. Capela/Nene/Harrell/Dekker have grossly exceeded expectations. The only player who was legitimately having a down year was Brewer, and we traded him away.

Now look at the Spurs. Outside of Leonard, has anyone exceeded expectations?

 

That's pretty deflating, because Broussard was firmly in Harden's camp making Clutchfans.net arguments on TV...

oh boy...

 

Yes, I just pointed that out in my previous post. That's actually how I defended Harden last year, that the impact of individual defense is a bit overrated and individual offensive capability is more important (great defense requires coordination between all 5 players, whereas in offense an individual player can take over the game single-handedly).

That being said, RPM and On/Off Net Rating includes both offense and defense, and still Kawhi comes out better or not far behind. It's not as clear to me that Harden is significantly more important for his team when just looking at the numbers.

 

The Thunder are 35-28. They have 19 games left. They would have to finish 15-4 to get to 50 wins. I don't think they will do it. 538 has them projected around 46/47 wins.

 

I think broussard will vote harden if we beat okc march 26th.

I remember him being firmly in hardens camp with colin cowherd right after we beat em last time