Trump envisions immigration bill granting legal status for immigrants (not citizenship)

Sounds like it could work. I don't think someone deserves to be a citizen just because they can walk across a border.

I would like to see some kind of path to citizenship. Work or live in the country for a certain length of time without breaking laws and then be allowed to apply for citizenship. The main thing is to get people legal status.

I wonder if there are any other countries using such a system?

 

The dumbest posts on here are the people saying we'd have a layer of 2nd class citizens. Or a "caste system" (to use their intentional scarier nomenclature). They're here illegally today. If they were granted legal status (but short of citizenship), then they can apply to be citizens like anybody else and go through that process.

 

You don't have to be a citizen to get benefits. Green card holders pretty much get every benefit normal citizens have except the right to vote. I have family members who never became citizens but still collect social security for example.

 

And for the 2nd or 3rd time, the status Trump is talking about does not come close to permanent resident status.

 

Well, this all appears to be a WH misdirect, hoping to get positive press leading into his speech to Congress.

Press got played.

 

$500 fine? What a joke. That is a complete slap in the face to those who pay thousands of dollars to do it legally.

If it was $500 a month, I would support this. All this does is tell future illegals that one day a desperate party will make them legal in exchange for their vote.

What we should do is make it painful enough for them to either decide to invest in this country or go back to their country. We can do this by making a monthly payroll fine. The more work visas given, the higher the fines go up for all illegals until some decide its not worth staying. We then follow up by cracking down on illegals, not just the ones who are breaking other laws. And if they dont like the fines, they can come into this country like all other immigrants.

 

Are those the dumbest posts? I can think of some others that might vie for that title.

 

Then they'll just be incentivized to stay in the shadows, which is the worst case for everyone - them and the US.

 

Unless we grant citizenship to every illegal from here on out, we will always have them in the shadows. Granting citizenship accomplishes nothing other than being used for political talking points. Illegals should earn it the hard way. They should also be forced to be ready to invest in this country somehow and not use our country to simply better themselves.

 

Phrasing!

I haven't read the details yet, and it doesn't seem as ideal as the prior unpassed legislation, but it looks to be close to what I think our policy should be.

This may be the first and only time I've praised Trump for anything.

 

Holy ****, I agree with Trump and bigtexxx in the same thread.

 

I don't really disagree, but it could create a system of de facto conscription -- foreigners choosing the military essentially under duress.

I wonder what you mean about "investing" in the country. Our illegal population cut short whatever life they had in their home country, moved their whole lives here, work here, spend here, have families here, start businesses here, join churches here, join gardening clubs here. Everything they do is here. So what is it that you think they should be doing (and perhaps citizens are doing?) that they're holding back on?

 

Agree... and financially investing by buying goods and services while in the country, including paying sales tax. You could also say they may be investing in the country by providing goods and services that others are not, at least not at the wage level that the immigrants are being paid.

 

I've been telling folks since the election that the one thing that Trump could do to fully cement his dominance would be to provide working illegal immigrants that have no criminal record an easy path to legal status. There are a lot of blue edges on the map that are there because of the fear of deportation for hard working folks. This will turn those blue edges red.

For immigration reform, this is the first step. The next step is to make immigration less complex and dependent on expensive lawyers. I don't know that the process should necessarily be "easier" or shorter but definitely cheaper and less complicated.

 

I think you may be right about that. I've long been amazed at how Republicans thumb their nose at the large and growing Hispanic vote. The community is conservative in many ways and could be receptive to well-crafted Republican overtures, but they're instead being pushed away by Republican positions on immigration -- and rhetoric about Mexicans being rapists, etc. And while I think Trump really hurt himself with his campaign stuff, the rapists, the wall, VOICE, etc, I think he could still win support among Hispanics if he paired border enforcement with a rational and humane solution for illegal immigrants who have long lived here. They could have done it during the Obama Administration and gotten credit, but probably would have pissed off a portion of the white base. Doing it under Trump, with no evil socialist muslim to kowtow to, they can make it the Republican solution, take all the credit, and the white base will look the other way. They should do it, but they have some unreasonable people in the House that seem to scuttle anything that would broaden the base, so I think they may screw it up.

 

The bill did make them earn it. They have to (and get to) be part of society for 10 years. They can't get welfare benefits or anything like that. Then after everyone who was in line before them has gone through the system legally, and only if border enforcement was developed and is successful, then they get an opportunity for a green card (still not citizenship). Instead of working in the shadows, they work legitimately during those 10 years so they pay taxes. They can buy houses and have bank accounts and actually be a part of the system and fully participate in the economy. Again, these are things that benefit both us and them. It reduces our enforcement costs, increases our tax base, reduces crime, reduces the money leaving the country, cuts business abuse of illegal workers, etc.

Your focus is on punishing, which is understandable and may feel good, but it doesn't really have any net benefits to anyone. The question is whether you're more concerned with feeling good, or doing something effective. The bill addresses all the issues: the supply of illegal labor, the demand for illegal labor, the businesses, the individuals, border security, the legal immigrants already in line, etc. That's the definition of comprehensive immigration reform. You seem to only want to focus on one small part.

 

Sorry, wrong topic, moving...

 

Of course, what did you expect them to say.

 

Didn't expect the "we're incompetent" defense.

 

Just in case NSA or some other agency actually bugged the conversation by following the Russian ambassador and there were actually conversation about the election. Smart move, they can throw Sessions under the bus if necessary.