James Harden is gonna get screwed over again in MVP Voting

I swear this MVP race is gonna be like Hillary v. Trump. Harden is gonna be projected to win like Hillary and then Westbrook at the last second wins Trump style.

 

You have a sense for the dramatic.....

 

sad!

 

So unfair!

 

I don't know. Right now, it seems like a lot of media folks are projecting Westbrook to be the MVP. Inside the NBA said it. First Take said it. I think it's the triple double average(29.4 PPG, 10.2 APG, 10.5 RPG) that's giving him the edge. Which is an amazing achievement if he can maintain it for the rest of the season. But it's not like Harden's numbers are vastly inferior(27.5 PPG, 11.3 APG, 8.2 RPG). And oh BTW, the Rockets are 8 games ahead of the Thunder in the standings. When Curry won MVP 2 years ago, it was almost entirely due to the Warriors finishing 11 games up on the Rockets. Cuz given the respective injury and talent situations with the two teams, no one could've said with a straight face that Curry was more valuable or had to pick up more slack than Harden.

That's the part that's gonna really p-ss me off if it comes to pass. If the Rockets finish way ahead of the Thunder in the standings and way ahead of anyone's preseason predictions, yet Westbrook still gets the MVP, it really will seem like the media has an agenda.

 

Isn't it kind of the opposite?

Westbrook was getting all the MVP talk heading into the season since most everyone thought he would average a triple double and wanted him to win because of the KD situation. Kind of like how a lot of people wanted Hillary to win purely because she would be the 1st woman president. Even now, Westbrook is still getting more of the "social media" and former player "analysts" (Shaq, Kenny, Charles, etc.) vote purely because he is averaging a triple double.

On the other hand, you have James Harden. I'm not sure how you would compare him to Trump other than no one really expected him to be a serious MVP candidate / Presidential Candidate. I guess both had somewhat of a negative reputation that doubters love to bring up.

But now, here we are.

 

OKC has a clear edge on defense? Capela/Harrell/Nene are solid defenders. Adams is better, but Kanter is a weak defender. In other words, the Rockets have solid defense at the center position for 48 minutes while OKC has better defense for 31 minutes and weaker defense for 17 minutes. I'm sure we can all agree that it's better to have solid defense for 48 minutes as opposed to elite defense for 31 minutes and poor defense for 17 minutes, right?

Roberson is a marginally better defender than Ariza, but after him, do the Thunder have any good defensive players?

Also, it's laughable that you're trivializing Beverley's defensive ability. You think it's a legitimate criticism that he's physically limited to guard pg's and sg's? Considering we're in the golden age of pg's, I think we're pretty lucky to have him.

 

and i don't care for his offense only dynamic. I'll take Nene's overall attributes compared to one sided kanter

 

Chris Broussard (who has a vote for MVP) just said on Undisputed that right now he would vote:

1. James Harden
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Isaiah Thomas
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. LeBron James

 

So Broussard thinks Harden should win MVP?


Damn. Congrats to Westbrook for winning MVP.

 

Capela & Harrell are solid defenders? Lol, have you seen what the other teams are able to do with those protecting our paint area? Why do you think we have one of the worst interior defense in NBA? Nene has been OK, but nowhere near as good as Adams, and only plays 17 minutes per game.

Roberson DRPM : 2.03 (6th among SF)

Ariza DRPM : 1.25 (11th among SF)

Marginally better? That's a 48% difference, not 5%. Roberson is a strong all-defensive team candidate this year; is Ariza's name even brought up in those discussions? After Roberson, there's Oladipo who is a very good defensive player (DRPM 1.09, 5th among SG), and Sabonis is no slouch himself (DRPM 1.23) - certainly much better than Ryno (DRPM -0.45). In fact, four out of five OKC starters have higher DRPM than Houston when matched position by position.

Furthermore, OKC's starters have the fourth best defense in NBA (even better than Memphis), in contrast to our starting five which is 17th in defense. Yes, our second unit is better than OKC's - including defense - but they only play 17~18 minutes per game, as opposed to the starters who usually play 30+ minutes per game together.

http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/#!?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular Season&StarterBench=Starters

What's trivializing about pointing out the obvious fact that Beverley can't defend anyone who is much bigger than him? You know Roberson and Oladipo can guard at least three positions, right? How many positions can Beverley cover?

 

Stephen A Smith said harden for MVP on first take during superbowl week in houston. Hes pretty adamant about it. Harden is getting love. I think hes the betting favorite now too.

If harden keeps putting up 29 12 8 and the rockets have at least 3 seed than he will probably win it.

 

There is no agenda. Westbrook's game is just more aesthetically pleasing than Harden's, and since our judgement of a particular person is so often clouded by irrational emotions and prejudices, if the conditions are similar Russ is bound to gain the upper hand. That's why Harden has to win close to 60 games to even have a shot at this, when that same standard does not apply to Westbrook. It's not really Harden's fault per se (except some shady foul-drawing tactics and lack of effort on D, by which many regular fans are put off), but basketball is just as much an entertainment as it is a serious sport, so that's the nature of this process.

 

Screamin' A Smith and Chris Broussard are on Harden for MVP?



Harden's doomed

 

http://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-mvp-201617-betting-odds

I trust people who put their $ where their mouth is. Harden is odds on favorite

 

That's good. Harden certainly has a very good shot at the MVP, but I still believe he needs to get his team to win at least 58 games to really make the noise. Anything short of that it gets tricky, especially if OKC finishes anywhere above the 7th seed.

 

I don't like the changing metrics from one season to the next. Harden lost the MVP in 2015 because Curry was on a much better team record-wise. If the Rockets win significantly more games than the Thunder this season(I'm talking 7+) and Harden and Westbrook's respective stats remain relatively similar to what they are now, Harden should win the MVP.

And I don't wanna hear that the Rockets have a better roster, cuz that's BS. Gordon's been fantastic this season, but he's also had nagging injuries that either hobbled him in some games or kept him out of others. Anderson's been inconsistent to say the least. Bev missed the first dozen or so games after knee surgery. Nene can't play in some games due to required rest. Capela missed a month due to a leg injury. Corey Brewer sees significant minutes on this team! And while Dekker and Harrell have had some impressive games, those two are basically rookies given how little playing time each received last season.

 

Ditto that. Even if Harden doesn't win that MVP award, I don't want to see it going to Russ for the preposterous reasons, such as that Westbrook has much inferior supporting cast - which is simply not true. I can stomach Kawhi or even Durant getting it, but Westbrook? nah. Dig deeper into that triple-double averages, and it's really not that as impressive as people think.

 

Media isnt as contradictory as people think. During the harden/curry race they entertained the harden has less help argument but ultimately gave it to curry.

This year they are entertaining the westbrook has less help argument but will end up giving it to harden.

Ill eat crow if im wrong but people need to slow their roll on the conspiracy theories and paranoid thinking. We arent victims lol

Vegas has him as the odds on favorite. Trust that people know basketball enough to give Harden the MVP this year

 

For defensive purposes, would you rather have a rotation of Adams/Kanter or Capela/Harrell/Nene?

Going by those stats, the OKC supporting cast is worse than I thought. I didn't realize that Oladipo has a negative Offensive Real Plus Minus. Roberson has a crazy negative ORPM....it's actually worse than Corey Brewer's. Where does Domantas Sabonis' ORPM of -4.18 rank? 2nd worst in the league. Even Steven Adams has a negative ORPM.

I underestimated OKC's defenders, but I also overestimated their offensive abilities. The gap between Harden's and Westbrook's supporting casts is even wider than I thought.

B/c this is a guard driven league, and our potential playoff opponents (except for the Spurs) will all have star pg's (Curry/George Hill/CP3/Conley/Westbrook/Lillard/Irving). And obviously, Beverley is better at guarding pg's than Oladipo.

Also, Oladipo is 6'4. He's not going to be guarding Durant (6'10"), Leonard (6'7"), Hayward (6'8"), Parsons (6'10"), Gallinari (6'10"), or Harkless (6'9"). So no, he can't reliably guard three positions.