Terrible rebounder, individual defender and team defender. Yes he is great at finishing but so is Nene and Capela (usually). We need to get better in the former areas. Ibaka is a better player at this point, although Harrell has potential and Ibaka is on the decline, so still not sure I'd do a deal.
I think for the Rockets with MDA that the system is relavent. I like Harrell, again he is a great finisher, one of the best in the league with Harden feeding him. But him playing puts the Rockets at disadvatange on either spacing, or on defense and rebounding. Harrell would likely go best next to a big man (PF or C) who can defend centers, rebound and shoot at an above average level. Rockets don't have that right now, and those players are pretty rare and hard to get. Even Ibaka doesn't fit under that description as he is a mediocre rebounder. Harrell rebounding has improved from last year, but it's still bad for a PF and almost attrocious for a center. He plays center for the Rockets, Harrell is in the bottom 5 in RPG per 48 minutes out of all the qualified centers on ESPN stats sheet. It's just a big disadvantage when he's on floor, especially since Anderson this year has been a even WORSE rerebounder then Harrell (bottom 5 of all qualified PF's in RPG per 48 mins).
The guy is a straight up cross between Capela and Anderson. Age aside, he could be a legit piece to the puzzle. For the right price (not a max), he'd be a huge add for us! Fits our stretch run and gun offense, plus he can run the pick and roll to the basket or to the 3 point line. Also averaging more blocks per game than Clint. I'm all for it.
You severely undervalue what Harrell has done this season on a ton of aspects. Those advanced numbers don't tell the entire story and never do. this huge disadvantage as you say has been an absolute plus for the rockets and anyone who has followed the rockets closely would know that.
Ok, looks like Orlando are staying firm on this. I'll throw in _holic and bobbythefail as well as future rights to joomba. Hopefully they bite now.
You're missing the point. Dekker and Trez cost the Rockets $1-2m, Ibaka would command 18-22 on the open market(let's say 20 for fair value), do you realize what else we can do with that 18-19 million? We can have Trez, Dekker, and talent like Eric Gordon plus more. You also gotta factor in there IS a way Ibaka doesn't sign here. He gets more money, or a longer deal in what he considers a better place(or not). He's not restricted, there's no guarantees. And if you've watched Ibaka the past two years, he's starting his decline. His shot blocking is still very good, but his overall defense is not that great and he's an average rebounder. He has low bball IQ, too.
See this is the problem with turnovers "doubled" sounds really bad but in reality that just means 1 more turnover per game. 1 more turnover= 2 pts. Well Dwight scores 13 pts on 8 shots Ibaka gets 15 pts on 12 shots so honestly if you take efficiency into account or allow Dwight to take more shots he's gonna score more than Ibaka easily. What I'm saying is from Orlando's POV considering they gave up Oladipo for him they wouldn't put him on the trade block if he was still amazing, or at least the player they thought he would be. People make mistakes in terms of overvaluing or undervaluing a player but in this case why get rid of Ibaka over Vucevic, Gordon and Biyombo? Why not trade the other guys and keep the guy you traded for unless there is a compelling reason for it? And for that manner why will OKC even trade him in the first place if he was still a beast? Teams generally trade the worse player and keep the guy that's gonna be good ie. OKC kept Adams and traded Ibaka. Looking at it on the outside its nuts Orlando put him on the block and keep hanging on to Biyombo but if they did that there must be a reason for it Maybe Ibaka is low key disrupting team chemistry with whining for touches, maybe he caught Westbrick-itis his efficiency isn't good enough to warrant his shot attempts. Would I take him on the Rockets? Dpends. Ibaka makes 12M that would basically mean no wing player scorer which the team needs more than yet another big man.
Its pretty ridiculous though why are you comparing a 28 yr old making 12M this year and possibly 18M with a 2nd round pick? Thus when comparing Ibaka you need to see first what it will take to get him, what if it costs Capela, Harrell, Dekker, Brewer for salary and a 1st to get him? Is Ibaka worth all that? **** no. To me it doesn't matter what Harrell becomes even if he stays the same level he'll still be valuable as a bench guy on the cheap. You won't pay Harrell 12M or whatever amount Ibaka will make.
I'd take him for Brewer + KJ, no problem. That's $12 mil and that goes. But as for Orlando's judgement, their GM needs to be canned. He's been awful, trade after trade, draft selection after draft selection. He needs to go home.
You can qualify it all you want to, but 2 points is 2 points. And two points can make the difference between a good and a great team or a bad and a good team. Two points is the difference in point differentials between the Cavs and the Celtics, the Rockets and the Clippers, the Grizzlies and the Nuggets. A single bad possession every single game can make a significant difference over the course of the season, and Dwight has far more of those than Ibaka. Honestly, Orlando is probably trying to deal Ibaka because they realize there isn't a good chance that he stays with the Magic this summer. I don't think it has anything to do with his talent. Because he's a much better basketball player right now than Gordon and Biyombo. As for why OKC, made that trade, it's pretty obvious they did it because they were desperate to keep Durant in OKC. And if he wasn't going to stay in OKC, at least they added a young piece to build around. Not always true at all. You're acting as if Ibaka makes the same amount of money as those guys. Except he doesn't. And this summer, he's about to make A LOT more than all of them. Also, as previously stated, I don't necessarily think this has anything to do with what Orlando wants to do and a lot more with what it has to do based on the fact that Ibaka isn't likely re-signing there in a few months. Now this is actually a pretty good point. They could use another scorer and playmaker on the wings. Although I would argue that they need interior defense every bit as much as they need secondary scoring, if not moreso. When this team is hitting shots, it's offense is probably the second best in the league. But their defense is below average even when they're playing well. I think Ibaka's upgrade defensively in the front court could have a greater impact than a player of equal value on the wings whose primary asset is scoring.
You're being generous here imo...i would be very surprised if he gets less than 96/100x4...even though who knows, maybe the trend of overpaying will change this summer...
No I absolutely don't pay that to get him. The whole Montrezl comparison started because people are reluctant to trade Montrezl for Ibaka. My Max offer has been brewer/montrezl/1st and that'sincluding dumping brewer. But to think losing Harrell isn't worth Ibaka than we shall agree to disagree.
There's no need to over-analyze how Ibaka got to Orlando or give your opinions on that trade. He's available because the Magic are caught up in the classic risk-losing-him-for-nothing bind. That's all I care about. I don't care how good Oladipo is or how the trade looks in hindsight. Also, the Draymond Green comparison is about as bad as comparisons get. He's more like (and the situation would be more akin to) Rasheed Wallace. Possible contender makes mid-season trade for free-agent-to-be 4/5 known for their range/finesse game and defensive prowess.
Ibaka used to be good when he was younger, now at 35 he doesn't have athleticism to do stuff like this anymore:
I'd guess he's closer to 31 based on his numbers since he peaked 3 years ago. Usually players peak statistically around 27 or 28.
