I know people from many different denominations of the Christian faith.There are many different thoughts and interpretations of the Bible, prophecy, and well just about everything but I have never met another self professing Christian who did not think life began at conception. Do you believe life begins at conception? Unless you tell me differently, I will assume you think it is "just a fetus" and not a baby given your reply I quoted. Does the denomination you belong to not believe life begins at conception or do you actually let your liberal/socialist beliefs overrule your Christian beliefs on this point? If so, that is fine, but I wholeheartedly disagree. FB, as I have told you many times, I respect you even though I disagree with you on almost everything. A lot of that respect comes from the fact that you are a self professed Christian. Anyway, I do not want to start a major debate on this but but like to know where you stand on this as a Christian. Perhaps there is a denomination of Christians out there who do not believe life begins at conception, if so and you are a part of them, I would like to know.
That's all true, but the argument is incomplete which imo makes it dishonest. I don't have a beef with you about it, but I see too many arguments that just say "no government money goes for the abortions" and stops there and ignores the legitimate counter-argument that money is fungible and the non-abortion services are enabling PP to provide abortions (by grossing up operations and diversifying income so they can pay rent and payroll, etc). It's better to recognize the counter-argument and instead stand on your rights. It may not be 'democratic' but it is republican. We built a government with a co-equal judicial branch that was shielded from the electoral process for exactly this reason. We also wrote a Bill of Rights with guarantees of individual rights that could not be undermined by majority vote for exactly this reason. That a few judges invented this right from a peculiar reading of the Constitution doesn't make it any less Constitutionally legitimate or any less the law of the land. Being unhappy about the way abortion became legal is being unhappy with American governance, generally.
I sure am. There's lots of posters on this board alone that I wouldn't want passing genes on to another generation.....if they'll willingly kill their babies in order to prevent it from happening, it only helps the world. Forcing people to kill their babies is morally wrong, but if you can convince them that it's what they want, it's genius.
Well St. Thomas Aquinas didn't believe that it began until several weeks after conception. He called it delayed animation. When I go to church, I go to either Presbyterian, non-denominational, or Christian church. Mostly I don't go to church but prefer bible study. I don't know exactly when it begins. I think that is a matter of science and not necessarily religion. What happens once that life begins would then fall into the realm of religion.
Bobby, you have never pretended to be anything other than pro-abortion. I disagree but respect your opinion. I do agree with you on most other issues.
FB, that is a fairly ambiguous answer to my question. Unless you tell me otherwise, it appears you let your liberal / socialist beliefs supersede any religious teaching you may have been exposed to in your life. That is impossible for me to do. The Lord ALWAYS comes first for me. If I remember correctly, your mother is a preacher. How does she feel about abortion? I assume her teachings about religion would have been the biggest influence in your life. (Note: it is possible I am misremembering some of our previous conversations about religion and your mother being a preacher. If so, I apologize.)
Honestly this view chaps my hide. Just because something is legal doesn't mean we should openly accept it. Abortion debate is a very gray area, even to the point of using it as birth control. I am against using it as birth control, but honestly, If a woman is that low enough to abort a perfectly healthy pregnancy, the woman does not deserve that child. The left longs to talk about how we should educate the masses, but they are perfectly fine churning out abortions and freely handing out welfare benefits w/out teaching them to help themselves. We should strongly discourage abortions, not stand up and be proud for such actions. That is what is disgusting with many of the pro-choice crowds.
I don't want to interrupt your tete-a-tete with FB, but your posts reflect for me what has gone terribly wrong with the pro-life movement, which is its conceits of ideological purity. The women's march seems to have put salt on a wound for the church, which I've seen of course through Facebook: some pro-life Christians reproaching other pro-life Christians for marching in solidarity with pro-choice groups for women's rights. With the same sort of rhetoric you used here -- "how can you call yourself a Christian?" No space is given for a Christian to consider any other angle with the life of a baby on the line. The effect is that the prolife movement is actually pushing away allies because they aren't "Christian enough." My wife is pro-life, but she marched for women's rights and didn't march for life. Me too; I'm not Christian and not pro-life, but neither am I pro-choice and I want some regulation, but I wouldn't throw in with wingnut pro-lifers who constantly question the commitment of allies. I have to wonder if you quoted the right person. I'm not saying to accept it. I don't accept it. But, there is a right way and a wrong way to do soemthing about it. Constantly trying to skirt the court decision with some subterfuge is the wrong way.
If you are also against the death penalty and pro-refugee, then we can assume you are in line with the head of your church: The Bishop of Rome, the Holy See, Pontifex Maximus, the head bridge builder--The Pope. You are Roman Catholic, yes? I am a member of the Anglican Community, The Episcopal Church and do not believe that life as we understand it, begins at conception and support a woman's right to choose and more importantly, the ease of birth control as a means to PREVENT unwanted pregnancies. However, I think that we should retain the death penalty for limited use and I believe in welcoming refugees. I am not consistent in all beliefs, so you can comment on me being a hypocrite as well. But if you are staking out the "how can a Christian that doesn't adhere to xyz be a Christian" argument, then shouldn't you be subject to the same label of hypocrite if you don't adhere to the same concepts?
On the contrary, I am asking FB to explain it to me, that is all. I want to understand his beliefs. I know he was raised as a Christian and still professes to be one. I do not know any other Christians from any other denomination personally who do not think life begins at conception. (Note: I am not saying Christians who do not believe life begins at conception do not exist, rather I have never met one who does not believe life begins at conception.) Perhaps, FB is from a denomination for which I am not familiar hence that is why I am posting the questions to him. If so, I still will disagree with him but there are many nuances of Christianity that different denominations disagree with. I am just trying to ascertain if FB's beliefs on this subject come from his Church or from his personal beliefs which may be contrary to his church's beliefs, I suspect the latter.
I agree with your whole message. Neither side works in their both interest and its very frustrating for both sides to go with the all-or-nothing approach. We lose so many opportunities to make everyone's life better because of this approach. The right has the philosophy of 'if you give an inch, they take a mile' and the left very often does go for the whole mile. In the case of abortions, if a woman wants to abort a healthy baby, she should be forced to take a little time to think about it and take a couple group sessions instead of treating it like a supermarket check-out.
Sure. Although, what you consider a baby isn't what is being "murdered". I believe in providing a women that right to choice and providing the means for affordable reproductive health.
There are many reasons an abortion happens and not all of them resemble a super market check out or a result of lack of empathy. I realize it's easier to generalize instead of understanding a person's decision.
Sorry I had that wrong. Is it wrong to think that you must be ideologicaly pure if you are requiring it of others? Are you pro-death penalty?
You are correct, when she was alive she was a pastor. Her teachings had great influence on my life. I'm not actually sure where she believed that life began. I do know that she was willing to go with what science showed on the subject.
