Until you can cite ME a source that shows the rockets are better with Harden on the floor when he is standing at 30' without the ball, I won't agree. You guy's are basically arguing that the most efficient use of an MVP level player in the NBA is to act as a decoy?? that doesn't make sense. I'm not talking about hypothetical ORtgs!
What was the easy solution for Memphis? I don't recall a counter from them that worked. I do remember Tony Allen and Ennis playing defense outside the 3 point line. Clearly you are the smarter basketball mind here, so what say you?
I'm just as curious as you. All I did was notice it and write about it. My opinion is that we'll use this as just another tool in the bag, but I think everything hinges on who is guarding the super-stretched/sagging player. If Harden is guarded by a weak defensive player like Curry, you'd have to change it up, but if Draymond or Klay come out that far to guard Harden, we probably have some advantage somewhere. Personally, I think this strategy works best when you're trying to negate the skills of a big center. Draymond and KD can cover a lot of ground and neither play center, so I think the best strategy to beat them is to never get cold and play defense every possession. There doesn't seem to be a trick to breaking them other than hope the refs are calling fouls on Draymond and hitting your shots. You can always be lazy talent with effort, but they aren't always lazy from what I've seen this year. Come to think of it, Anderson is probably the best tool against the GSW. I think they look far weaker when you negate Draymond's defense. There are two ways that come to mind for him, pull him out high to guard an Anderson type or run him around screens until he feels a little lost on defense. Our 7 second offense doesn't involve much screening, so.. best answer: if Ryan is off, I don't have an answer.
That's not what we are saying or what the OP play is showing. It won't be 4x4 just leaving Harden at 35' as a "decoy." Most defenses won't guard him that far out without the ball. Thus it's 4x5 not 4x4, and stupid to put Harden that far out, not In the play nor drawing any defense. We don't have to cite anything other than saying NBA defenses won't do ball denial that far out very often, for a reason. But if they do, then as you can see in the OP, MDA will sometimes exploit it by going 4x4.
That's coaching though... if it isn't working, try something else, right? The thing is it did work last night. I'm just here discussing why it worked and what other situations this new tool can be used in.
Ok, I think I finally nailed down the disagreement here, You are saying teams choose to pressure James sometimes way out there, in which case he defers to his team to go 4x4. I get that and agree . what I am saying is, harden sometimes settles out there. Maybe the defensive coverage gave him the idea to, but sometimes it is his choice. I just don't want to see him settle like that because in the end it takes away from the team's best chance to win the games that really matter, against the really good teams.
Watch the highlights, the Rockets didn't sustain it all night. They used it as a tool to give the offense different looks. Harden inserted himself when they changed up the defense. It's classic art-of-war strategy. Set the tone/situation, then go into battle. The real issue is how good is the offense at 5 on 5 compared to the team at 4 on 4 sans their best defender. Teams don't practice 4 on 4 defense as much at 5 on 5. So it's easier to find cracks in the system.
I think you're slightly twisting my words. I didn't really talk about 4v4 in real NBA situations, only hypothetically where there would be literally eight players on the court. I haven't watched many Spurs games and haven't seen Kawhi taken out of a play, nor did I pay enough attention game against the Grizz to see Allen taken out of their defensive scheme. I don't know how an offensive player 35 feet from the basket takes a defender out of a play more than usual unless that player is a legit threat to score from there (Curry) or the defender doesn't cheat off his man at all. In the assumed 4v4 context we are speaking of, individual defense and help defense are both harder to play. Help defense isn't non-existent, there's just literally one less defender that can help. And less help defense makes it harder to guard a man individually. The only time help defense is non-existent is when it's an actual game of 1 on 1 basketball. Have you ever played defense 2 on 2 where both the other guys can score? You can't help very much at all, which is why everyone looks like a superstar in those games.
I'm guessing part of this strategy is getting the ball out of Harden's hands early. He is turnover prone and his turnovers are frequently easy buckets going the other way. So, if Harden starts noticing pressure at a certain point on the court, just start the offense from before that point. No turnover and Harden is already in a decent defensive position. This strategy can help the defense and offense and is less apt to turnovers.
Ya I watched the game. I'm just not convinced it was so premeditated. Rather, it was harden deferring (rightly) to his teammates when he didn't want to go at Allen. Our role players made those shots, so we won. Heypartner and I have been going back and fourth on your second point for the better part of the afternoon. I am skeptical of 4v4 as any sort of consistent scheme, but he has made some good points so we will see.
He could just start chucking up ballerina shots from 40 feet out. People have won the MVP for the last couple of years doing that.
Did not mean to twist you words. I was still in the context of the previous arguments. I don't have any problem with any of this. I just was questioning 4v4 as a viable strategy for the current rocket team.
I think the spirit of the argument is that, if you take any 4 NBA players, and give them a 4v4, the efficiency gains from the spacing will outpace any gains we get from harden being better than average in a 5v5. I'm saying NBA players have enough skill to utilize the extra space. You're saying that James is SO much better than the average 2 guard in the NBA that he makes up for all the efficiency that extra space grants us. I think it's possible to prove our discussion one way or the other, but I haven't even tried making a model for it yet. What about you guys?
I see your point. **** it we lost to Milwaukee. I would be interested to see stats from either point of view.
well said, sir. It's really hard for me to hate on james, but we are looking at a second round departure if he doesn't shore up some of these TO's imo
Turnovers and piss poor defense killed us last night. Harden really needs to cut down on those senseless turnovers. Make the simple pass. And defense seems to be down because they have become complacent since Capela is back. There was no communication at all on that end of the floor.
Turnovers and piss poor defense killed us last night. Harden really needs to cut down on those senseless turnovers. Make the simple pass. And defense seems to be down because they have become complacent since Capela is back. There was no communication at all on that end of the floor.
