Yeah right they're pulling him. I think Millsap actually thinks he should get $34m, so teams told the Hawks they can have the value of a rental or...
Sorry but i cannot agree when you say Anderson is much better than Millsap offensively, especially if you say that Millsap is just better (when he's much better) than Ryan on defense.
Ryan Anderson has a TS% of 59% Millsap has a TS% of 52.7. Sure there's a wide gap between defense but there's also a wide gap between offense esp. considering Anderson plays in a tougher conference. I don't see how you can argue Anderson isn't better offensively, he just is because he's a much more accurate shooter. Both of them even have the same win shares this season lol.
Well DeAndre Jordan hasn't had a TS% below 62% in 7 years... I don't think anyone would say he's a better offensive player than Millsap or Anderson. That said he does score 12 a game, at that crazy efficiency, even if he is creating none of it. That's just a bucket less than Anderson's. It's as much about fit and system when comparing the players. Ryan Anderson just spaces the floor in a way that Millsap is unlikely to do so and of course somehow like Jordan could never do. He's a 10% better three point shooter than Millsap. Millsap would get more and better looks at the three in Houston, but I don't think defenders would respect his three like they do Anderson's. I think Millsap is a more versatile offensive player, and the better rebounder and defender. he'd be a nice addition, but the value add of Anderson spreading the floor on this team offensively is huge.
Pretty much this. And just to clarify to @roslolian, personally i'm very happy with Ryan at this point even though i wasn't thrilled at all when we got him, i have to admit he's doing better than i thought so, give credit where credit's due. I just think Millsap is a better all around player which is able to fit in every enviroment because he brings everything on the table so, even though i'm liking Ryan more than i thought, i would lie to myself saying that he's a better player than Millsap or even in the same class.
What? De Andre Jordan has a high TS because all he does are dunks, what does that have to do with both Anderson and Millsap who are both shooters? Its not just about getting better looks its also about efficiency. When left wide open Anderson can shoot 42%, when left wide open Millsap shoots 31% that's the difference between the two. How can you say Millsap is more versatile when his efficiency isn't there? That's like when people say Melo is the most versatile scorer in the league turns out he makes shots at a garbage percentage? You know Anderson can also try doing all the crap that Millsap is trying, his percentage will plummet just like Millsap but I guess then he can be "versatile" too. If Millsap is so awesome and in a different class to Anderson how come Hawks haven't been relevant, he's been there for like 5 years now? We all know Horford is a star, how come if Millsap is a tier above Anderson Hawks still haven't gone anywhere? East is so weak Lebron is guaranteed a finals berth every year and Hawks can't even reach ECF every year? Millsap is just getting boosted by the weak East frontcourt, if he played in the West you'll see offensively he's inferior to Anderson, there's a difference when you against scrubs vs when you against Davis, KaT, Griffin etc.
You implied that because Anderson has a higher TS% than Millsap, he's the better offensive player. I brought up a different name. DJ gets his looks A LOT different than Anderson, true. But he almost scores as much, and at meaningfully higher TS%. My only point being its not just as easy as look at TS%. Obviously DJ isn't the same offensive player as Anderson or Millsap. I love efficiency. It's what makes the Rockets go. So many threes at such solid shooting %s. Just pointing out its not just about efficiency either. When left wide open Anderson can shoot 42%, when left wide open Millsap shoots 31% that's the difference between the two. How can you say Millsap is more versatile when his efficiency isn't there? That's like when people say Melo is the most versatile scorer in the league turns out he makes shots at a garbage percentage? You know Anderson can also try doing all the crap that Millsap is trying, his percentage will plummet just like Millsap but I guess then he can be "versatile" too.[/quote] Millsap is more versatile because he can do more things offensively than Anderson. Not complicated. He's clearly not the three point shooter Anderson is, though both have basically the exact same career TS%, though Millsap has been worse the last few years. Mills is not historically getting buckets on volume, or garbage shooting. He isn't the world's best or most efficient PF scorer, but he can score in a variety of ways and has the ability to score inside and outside. I just believe he can score in more different ways than Anderson more effectively. HOWEVER.... I don't think it's a huge difference at all and for this team and offense think its not even a difference and in fact a negative. I'd rather a 40% shooting Anderson that only shoots threes than Millsap. Nobody is saying Millsap is so awesome. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I'm just comparing him to Ryan Anderson individually and further as a fit on this team. I don't think Hereford is a star - never have, never will. In fact, I think he's very Millsap like. And so the Hawks did have a couple of years of making noise. Sure, they didn't get past a Lebron/Wade/Bosh Miami or a Lebron/Kyrie/Love Cavs. Nor would you expect them to. Millsap is, at best, a 4rd player on a championship quality team... at absolute best. Being that Bosh or Love on those Lebron team's. But even then, you'd clearly prefer Bosh, or Love. Given that, given his age, given his contract situation... I'm not interested in Millsap unless we're sending peanuts back in return.
Well your point is pretty dumb, efficiency is not just something that makes the Rox go efficiency is a lot of the major reason why someone is considered a better scorer. Dude scores 100 different ways but shoots 1/100 is that a good scorer? The goal of being a scorer is to put the ball int the hoop, if it takes more shots to score the same amount of points how can you say you're a better scorer? This isn't body building or dance competition, there's no plus points for style or creativity or whatever. DJ is a different player from both Anderson and Millsap why are you even bringing him into the conversation? This is like somebody arguing between Hakeem and Shaq on defense and you bringing up Ariza as the steal king. IF DJ was a shooter like Anderson and Millsap maybe you'd have a point but DJ gets his high TS because all he does is dunk from passes by CP3 so why is that counted in your "analysis"? Sure TS isn't everything but when comparing two similar types of players it's a good indication of who is the better scorer. At the end of the day both guys are stretch forwards, the guy who can provide more stretch at a better rate should then be the better forward, at least offensively. First of all we're not talking about Millsap during his prime, we're talking about him now in the 2016-2017 season and due to his age he and Anderson are already at the same level, just look at his performance the last couple of years he has been slowly deteriorating. Secondly what exactly do you mean by being more versatile offensively? Anderson can do everything Millsap can do, he can also score in the paint (see him doing his spin moves?) and he can score in the mid range ala Dirk. The only difference is Anderson is a much better shooter than he is a post scorer so he shoots outside more often even before he came to Rox. Like I said, when you look at Millsap's performance always take it with a grain of salt, the main reason Anderson became almost strictly a 3 pt shooter is because historically you can't be doing those post up moves when you're up against Tim Duncan, KG, Pau Gasol, Dirk etc. the quality of big men in the West was just so different from the ones in the East. If Millsap tried his "variety of moves" in the West he'd suffer from a huge drop in efficiency which means he'd probably stop doing those. East has had garbage big men for so long, of course Millsap will be emboldened to try scoring different ways when 3/4 of his games come against young guys who don't what they're doing or DLeague talent. When in the West though 3/4 of your games are against 7 footers who are all star quality opponents you can't be doing those shitty moves that aren't money. Look at Lou Williams, was an all star due to being a versatile scorer in the East. Moves West, and promptly disappears off the map. That's because moves he uses in the East to get him easy points against scrubs won't work against CP3 and co. out in the West. Considering the crap he's playing against Millsap should've been one of the highest TS% in the league if he's really money on those shots, I mean look at Dwight getting 20-20's in his day doing his garbage post moves! That's the main reason he thought he was Shaq 2.0, doing his post moves in the East gave him lots of points and made buckets. Then he moved West and tried his post moves against West teams, we all know how that turned out. Maybe if you read the posts of other people I was talking to before you butt in the conversation you'd have an idea. The other poster was saying Millsap was a superstar, I was saying Millsap is a role player which is what you'd expect from the 4rth player in a champion team.
Because it clearly isn't that black and white. Hence bringing up DJ, who scores almost as much as Anderson but at much higher efficiency. Because you're hyper focused on the fact that Anderson has a slightly higher TS% than Millsap at this point in their careers and that somehow and that somehow is the only thing that matters when determining who is a better player. DJ is a different player from Anderson and Millsap. And Anderson is a different player from Millsap, too. They're all different players, that score in different ways at different efficiency. As I've said multiple times now, how Anderson scores and fits into this Rockets offense is more valuable than whether he is a better efficiency scorer than Millsap. It's counted because it still results in points in the basket. But to your point, they aren't super comparable. So why do you insist on looking so much on TS% between Anderson and Millsap, when Anderson and Millsap are ALSO different players. Millsap shoots half as many threes and twice as many shots near the basket. The two guys are much less similar than you make out. Millsap has morphed into a stretch 4 almost by default, because of the way the league has changed. He didn't take more than 39 threes in a year until his 8th year, his first in Atlanta. Anderson took 189 threes his rookie year in 66 games. He's as classic a stretch big as you will find. You wouldn't want to go to Anderson in the post. The Rockets don't. You could go to Millsap in the post. On PnR you want Anderson staying behind the three point line. On PnR's you'd be ok with Millsap either staying out for a three or rolling to the rim ala our more traditional bigs. I'm not advocating the Rockets pick up Millsap - or certainly not for Anderson or anything meaningful. His age and contract are bigger deterrants than anything, but Anderson's style is a much better fit. But as noted, no, Anderson doesn't score in as many ways as Millsap. Anderson CAN hit the occasional shot in the paint... but its nowhere close to a go to skill set for him. You also wouldn't go to Anderson to create. I cringe everytime I see him try. It always ends in like 4 pump fakes and a fade away jumper. To his credit, he does hit some of those. Millsap has averaged over 2 apg for 7 straight years and over 3 for 4 straight years. Anderson has only just barely topped 1 apg 3 times. So when I say Millsap is more versatile, I think he can score in more ways with enough efficiency that he should, and that you can go to him to create. But again, that doesn't mean I'd want him in lieu of Anderson. I don't. Anderson's main skill-set is EXTREMELY valuable in today's NBA and even more valuable on the Rockets. This way overstates whether or not someone would be a better player because of what conference they're in. For one, the split in games is more 3/8 vs. the other conference, 5/8 vs. your own conference. For two, the East hasn't had the same dominant bigs as the West, but it has had plenty of good bigs, especially ones that can hold their own defensively and on the boards. For three, regarding Anderson, he started his career with NJ and Orlando... in the EAST. His first 4 years were in the East. And he was ALWAYS a stretch 4. Millsap on the other hand played the first 7 years of his career vs. the West. He didn't morph into a stretch 4 actually until he went East... counter to your theory. In 2010/11 he scored over 17 a game with the Jazz, shot 988 times, ONLY 23 from three, and had a 58% TS% (Anderson's season high TS% is 59%...). So he did try his moves in the West, and was efficient. The biggest issue with Millsap is that he's gotten old. Mid to late 20's Millsap was a really really really good, undervalued player. ?? Do you even follow basketball?? Lou Williams has spent a grand total of a year and a half playing in the West. And he's done quite well for him. HIs scoring averages of 15.3 last year and 17.7 this year would be his 3rd and 1st best averages. He has a career high PER this year. And his performance last year was better than many of his performances in prior years in the East. I'm not sure you've put a lot of research into this Lou Williams comparison. Players are who they are.... playing in the East or the West. Players can improve over time, and decline over time. And they can ABSOLUTELY be impacted by the team's their on, chemistry, fit, coaching, etc. All of those things are more relevant than what conference a player plays in when evaluating their skill sets. I've already explained how Millsap and Anderson both bust your theory. Millsap did play in the West, doing interior moves, posting the best TS%s of his career and on par with Anderson's best. He's not as good now... BECAUSE he's not as good now. He's older, and frankly shoots too many threes now if he's going to be shooting them at 31% as he does. Dwight's post moves sucked in Orlando, too. He... like Millsap, got old. Unlike Millsap he got injured and old. Unlike Millsap he got disgruntled, injured and old. And as he's gotten more and more disgruntled, injured and old, he's gotten worse. I "butted" in because this is a BBS and that's the whole point. Unless I start a thread, I butt into every other one. The other poster definitely thinks too highly of Millsap, though he does say he's a top 5/10 PF. He's definitely not top 5, but he probably has been top 10. If you google NAB PF rankings you are going to find him in the top 10 by pretty much every analsyis. I just did that and saw a few that had him top 5, but I disagree. Like this one: http://www.basketballinsiders.com/ranking-the-nbas-top-10-power-forwards/ ^ that one also addresses how good Millsap has been defensively... which is definitely a bigger gulf than how much better, if at all, Anderson has been offensively. I tend to concur with you more that he is a superb role player if on a championship team. Millsap is a better defender, better rebounder and more versatile offensive player and playmaker... But he's 10% lower on his threes and less efficient, and a worse offensive fit for the Rockets at this point in time. And more than anything, the fact that he is on the wrong side of 30 and is going to want a trillion dollars this offseason means you can't trade meaningful value for him.
I don't think that's surprising, really...they tried to trade him cause they probably know he's not going to stay there...maybe he doesn't like Dwight, maybe he wants to win, maybe he's pissed cause they wanted to resign Horford to play Al with Dwight and to do that they were ready to unload him...those are three all very credible and understandable reasons why he should be gone. I already thought they took him out of trade talks just cause they didn't get the pieces they were hoping for. Maybe (if not probably) this is wrong, but in the end, i think it's a credible scenario, Millsap is really a great player but he's also 32 years old, and has the right to ask a huge salary this summer (even though i'm not sure he's going to demand that, especially if he wants to win), not sure a lot of teams want to pay him that much...maybe the Kings are willing to max him, but i don't think they have the assets to trade for him, and i don't even think he wants to go there anyway, in fact it doesn't make that much sense...you leave Bud and Dwight to play in the worst organization in the league, and with Cousins (who is probably going to bolt next summer)? Eh...
Codman seems to allude to him often enough. Seems that Millsap isn't entirely thrilled from playing with Dwight (or with the team allowing Horford to leave so easily). Millsap is probably the fruit that needs to fall from high on the tree before teams start grabbing at the easier-to-reach apples / oranges etc.
There is no feasible way to trade for Millsap. We would have to trade either Anderson or Ariza, which would open up a hole in our offense or defense (don't be fooled, Millsap isn't a better offensive player on this team than Anderson). Next.
