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MDA has to have a serious talk with Harden

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by dwert, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. joomba

    joomba Member

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    Harden has lower FG% because he shoots a ton of three pointers. Learn basic maths before making ignorant argument. Harden actually has higher eFG% and TS% than Jordan, which means Harden is a more efficient scorer, mainly due to him being a superior 3-point shooter and his ability to get to the FT line. Add to that Harden's passing and playmaking skills, and it's not a stretch to suggest that Harden is up there with one of the best offensive guards of all time.
     
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  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    In addition to Harden or to replace Harden?
     
  3. joomba

    joomba Member

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    Jordan's career eFG% : 50.9%

    Kobe's career eFG% : 48.2%

    Harden's career eFG% : 51.8%

    Even without the help of free throws, Harden is more efficient scorer than Jordan (Kobe is not even close), because Jordan couldn't shoot three-pointers which makes all the difference. There's only so much a great mid-range jump shooter can do; People talk about Jordan as greatest of all time, then why the hell Bulls went 55-27 the year Jordan announced his first retirement, just 2 wins short of the season before?
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    And they didn't make it to the Finals.

    You're also including his old years which lowered his career shooting efficiency. His efg% was quite a bit higher during his prime.
     
  5. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    well i'll be. Harden is better than Jordan.
     
  6. joomba

    joomba Member

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    Yeah, but they made it to the ECF. If Jordan's value is just 2 more regular season wins and making a ECF team win titles, I'm not sure that qualifies him as the greatest of all time. It seems like LeBron has more impact wherever he goes.
     
  7. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Maybe. LeBron as the goat is certainly arguable though I'd personally still select Jordan
     
  8. Purvis2Short

    Purvis2Short Member

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    I'm pretty sure I'm smarter than you. If I don't shoot 3 pointers at a high average, then why do I take them? Jordan is a smarter player and knows his limitations. He wouldn't make an excuse when playing Golden State after 13 turnovers, that he needs help.
     
  9. joomba

    joomba Member

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    This shouldn't come as surprise because Jordan couldn't shoot three pointers. Hate to pop the bubble, but in terms of efficiency, Jordan is not the greatest scorer of all time. Now, don't get me wrong, Durant is still a better scorer than Harden is. Last year Curry too, but not this season.
     
  10. Purvis2Short

    Purvis2Short Member

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    All fabricated by todays' touch foul policy and arm flailing free throws.
     
  11. joomba

    joomba Member

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    Because shooting 50% on 2 pointers is equivalent to shooting 33% on 3 pointers. Again, learn the basics.
     
  12. joomba

    joomba Member

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    https://www.sportingcharts.com/dictionary/nba/effective-field-goal-percentage-efg.aspx

    What is Effective Field Goal Percentage - eFG%?

    A metric used in NBA basketball that is similar to Field Goal Percentage, but adds an additional parameter. This parameter adjusts for the fact that 3-point field goals are worth 50 percent more than 2-point field goals.

    eFG% = (FGM + (0.5 x 3PTM)) / FGA

    Basic basketball statistics have long been unfair to players who shoot a lot of 3-pointers. Players who take and make a large number of 3-point shots often don't have a very impressive field goal percentage, but that doesn't tell the whole story in terms of the points that player produces.

    Take, for example, a player like Hall of Fame center Bob Lanier. He generally did all his scoring around the basket. He had a career field goal percentage of 51.4, but since he did all his scoring in the lane, his effective field goal percentage was also 51.4.

    Now by contrast, let's look at a player like Hall of Fame guard Reggie Miller, who made 2560 3-pointers during his career. His career field goal percentage was 47.1, but because of all the 3-pointers he made, his effective field goal percentage was all the way up to 54.4.

    ---------------------------------------------

    LEARN THE BASICS
     
  13. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    efg doesnt include free throws
     
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  14. Purvis2Short

    Purvis2Short Member

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    That's a bullsh!t formula. A better offensive formula will include this formula + assist to turnover ratio. I wonder who would truly have the better eFG%. Then again, since we are comparing Jordan's career to Harden (offensively) - why not compare Jordan's first 4 years in the league versus Harden's. I wonder who would have a better eFG%.
     
  15. joomba

    joomba Member

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    One of the biggest myths about Harden's scoring ability is that he's not that good without FTs. Absolute bullshit. There are only few current players who can average 28 ppg with higher eFG% than Harden :

    Durant
    Curry (maybe not because last year could have been fluke)
    LeBron during his prime.

    That's the list.
     
    #575 joomba, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  16. joomba

    joomba Member

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    Maybe if Jordan wanted to be as efficient as Harden, he should've learned to shoot 3 pointers.
     
  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  18. Purvis2Short

    Purvis2Short Member

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    Harden is good offensively, but Jordan is in another stratosphere. Now if we are talking about Michael B. Jordan

    Jordan

    1986-87 23 CHI NBA SG 82 82 40.0 13.4 27.8 .482 0.1 0.8 .182 13.2 27.0 .491 .484 10.2 11.9 .857 2.0 3.2 5.2 4.6 2.9 1.5 3.3 2.9 37.1
    1987-88
    24 CHI NBA SG 82 82 40.4 13.0 24.4 .535 0.1 0.6 .132 13.0 23.7 .546 .537 8.8 10.5 .841 1.7 3.8 5.5 5.9 3.2 1.6 3.1 3.3 35.0
    1988-89
    25 CHI NBA SG 81 81 40.2 11.9 22.2 .538 0.3 1.2 .276 11.6 21.0 .553 .546 8.3 9.8 .850 1.8 6.2 8.0 8.0 2.9 0.8 3.6 3.0 32.5
     
  19. Purvis2Short

    Purvis2Short Member

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    Joomba, lets remove the stats for a second and think about the player. From an offensive stand point, would you rather have Harden or Jordan?
     
  20. joomba

    joomba Member

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    Overall, Jordan is a better scorer, although not the most efficient. Durant and last year's Curry has him beat on that. But when you combine Harden's scoring ability with his play-making ability, that's once in a generation talent. And passing is a huge part of offense, otherwise why would Magic be considered one of the greatest of all time?
     

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