Zach Lowe about James Harden: "He is the best PG in the League"

TL;DR : CP3 is a chronic playoff choker.

 

You know someone is just spewing out crap and following someone's agenda when they can't even come up with their own argument. Instead they go and look for obviously biased copypasta and use that as their basis for their argument. Not even top 5 in this era? Who's better? Curry? Deron? Kidd? Rose? Westbrook? Nash? Kyrie? I have a really hard time saying any of them are better. Went on to go on these multiple "examples" of CP3 choking, but if he brings up Curry as being better then dude might as well bring up the fact that Curry has played well below his standard in two finals appearances. Or Westbrook doing a bunch of dumb ass things. Or Rose being embarrassed in his one conference finals appearance.

I really don't appreciate this clearly biased and incorrect argument especially when it's one that doesn't even come from you. Just some random moron on the internet who clearly has some problems with Chris Paul. All that "evidence" of CP being overrated is crap and dude is just being extra picky. James Harden is over rated. 2012 NBA finals. 2013 and 2014 NBA playoffs Game 3 of WCF in 2015. Entire 2016 NBA season. Look! I just made Harden look overrated in 15 seconds. What do I win? Plus I did it in my own words! Bunch of crap lol.

 

Keep pushing your agenda.

 

Harden : 1 Final appearance, 1 WCF appearance. Absolutely crushed the Spurs in the 2012 WCF and was arguably the best player in that series behind Durant. Also, was voted as the 3rd best player in the 2015 playoffs by the press.

CP3 : Chronic playoff choker. 0 Final or WCF appearance.

 

I'm not going to go back and look at all the things CP3 has done in the playoffs, but one that sticks out like a sore thumb is the wreckage CP3 gave to the Spurs in 2015 which included a game winner.


You're a **** poster. Can't even come up with your own arguments. Obviously biased against Chris Paul. Defending Harden because you're a Rockets fan, but as soon as I bring up Harden's short comings you turn a blind eye. Like the 2012 NBA finals didn't happen where James disappeared. Or the 2013 and 2014 NBA playoffs where Harden disappeared. Those are 3 straight playoff series where he disappeared.

"But but but my copypasta that can't even spell Redick correctly! Chris Paul is okie dokie artichokie!!!"

 

Every player has good or bad moments in the playoffs. CP3 only has had bad moments in the playoffs and always choked during crucial moments. That's the difference. That's why CP3 has 0 conference finals appearance, let alone any rings. Looking beyond the stats, CP3 always choked in the 4Q - especially late in the game - when the whole series was on the line.

 

Curry was considered the best PG for the last two seasons, even though strictly speaking Chris Paul is the better passer. The best PG label necessarily doesn't mean the best passer, it's just the best player who happens to play the position of PG. So no, CP3 is not even close to the best PG, Harden Westbrook Curry are all ahead of him.

 

Harden was like 21 years old coming off the bench in that finals run. He didn't play well but most young players in there 3rd year in the league going against at the time the best assembled team of the last decade would not do well either.

The only series I felt harden underperformed was against Portland. That was a bad series for harden and cost us getting out of the first round.

Cp3 is one of the best PGs off all time no question but at some point the playoff failure has to fall on his shoulders. He's been the best player on every team he's played on since he entered the league. Hes got a very good team around him the last 4 years in LA as has had doc rivers coaching him for the last few years.

When your career is over nobody is going to look at cp3 playoff numbers all they will see is the inability to get out of the 2nd round.

It's hard to win big if your best player is a point guard. It's only been done a few times.

 

Lmao this deflecting is incredible. Won't acknowledge 3 straight bad playoff series.

But but but NBA finals and Conference Finals!

Let's take a look at these NBA finals and Conference Finals..

2012. Choked a 1-0 series lead. Shot 37.5% from the field. 32% from 3. 3.6 assists and 2.4 turnovers. Lost series in 5 games. Choke!

2015: Down 3-0. Turns the ball over in the very last second in a 1 point game in game 2. Shot 3-16 in game 3 at home in a 35 point game blow out. NBA record 12 turnovers in elimination game in game 5.

Yeah, man totally. Did Harden choke? What does it matter! He made it to the NBA finals coming off the bench and made it the conference finals only to choke after BARELY beating the master ChokeP3. Realize that. Harden made it the conference finals ONLY because the master choked. Harden was down 3-1 in the Semi's and the sole reason we made it to the conference finals is because the master choked. What does that say about Harden? That he needed another player to choke for him to make a WCF appearance...only for Harden to choke himself. Tsk tsk tsk.

I can't believe you're making me **** on my favorite player, but this is the type of garbage logic you're using.

 

Harden crushed the Spurs in the 2012 WCF, averaging 18.5 PPG 5.5 RPG 3.7 APG on 49.3 FG% and 60.9 3PT% against one of the best defensive teams in the league. That's historically great performance - outplaying his teammate Westbrook the whole series - and even coach Popovich admitted in one of his interviews that the reason they lost to OKC was Harden. So, Harden showed up big when it mattered, and was a huge reason why OKC was able to make it to the 2012 NBA finals. So, the fact that Harden didn't show up in the finals is irrelevant, because Harden was THE REASON why OKC was in the finals in the first place. CP3 never had that kind of performance in the playoffs.

Same thing in the 2015 WCSF, yes he had a huge help from his teammates in game 6, but Harden showed up big in game 7 and was able to seal the series, unlike CP3 who always choked in late game situations in the playoffs, especially when the whole series was on the line.

 

The deflecting is real.

2014: Home court advantage. Lose first 2 home games. Down 3-1. Shoot 29.6% from 3 and 37.6 from the field. That's a choke regardless of what he did to the Spurs in 2012.

2013: Down 2-0. Westbrook out for the rest of the series. Houston going back home to try to make it 2-1. Harden shoots 9-22 in game 3 and 2-8 from 3. Down 3-0. Win 2 games to bring series to 3-2. Game 6 elimination game: 7-22 entire game. Down 1 going into the 4th quarter. Harden goes 2-6 in 4th and 2 turnovers. Choke?

You know this same bogus and biased stuff you're doing with CP3 anyone can do with Harden, right?


edit: It's really easy to pick apart these terrible arguments. I'm gonna call it a night though. This is a waste of time. You're a moron. Simple.

 

Do you even understand English?

Is there any mention of Harden never choking in the playoffs? Give me one playoff series where CP3 crushed his opponent and led his team to the WCF, let alone NBA Finals. Harden has that, that's the difference.

Let me make this simple for you : Harden has been a hit or miss in the PO, whereas CP3 is always a miss.

 

lol I watched Stockton play for nearly his entire career. He was a good defender but he also had two elite guys getting his back if he got burned. He is the best passer of all time. I'll also give you that he was a better shooter, particularly from distance. Finally I'll give you the durability. But Chris Paul is on a different level defensively. He completely erases his man's shots - and he gets more steals. His man shoots around 35% when he guards them. Paul has also been mostly durable. He's not an iron man, but he's not injury prone. But what Stockton always had Malone, one of the 5 best PF's of all time. Paul has never had anyone of that caliber. He still manages to put up insane numbers with a passing efficiency far greater than Stockton's. Paul's assist rate is almost the same and turnover rate is nearly half. Combine that with a slightly higher steal rate, and not only does he cough the ball up half as often but he's taking it away on the other end even more. Paul is hurting from reverse recency bias - you're seeing him now so you haven't had time to inflate his game in your head. But numbers don't lie.

I also freely admit that Stockton is on my top 5 most hated players of all time, along with Malone and Kobe, Boozer and Pippen.

 

Also @chenjy9 - I completely disagree that Kidd is better than Paul. Paul does anything Kidd can do better across the board. And I think Kidd is right up there in the top 5 discussion. Finally, regarding better competition: 80's and 90's had some great PG's. But we are in a golden era of PG play. I mean you have 10 guys who are at least at All-Star level and - if you include Harden - at least 4 future Hall of Famers (Westbrook, Paul, Curry for sure). This era of PG play is at the very least equivalent to Stockton's. You can make the point that he played with the hand check rule - but that works both ways because it also means defense was easier.

I respect your choice to put Stockton above Paul but I can't agree.

Right now, if I had to make a prediction for where Paul will eventually end up: 1) Magic Johnson, 2) Oscar Robertson, 3) Chris Paul.

 

If Chris Paul stops choking in the playoffs and getting outplayed by his match-up, I'll show him true respect that he deserves. Until he does that, he ain't the best PG, not even close.

 

I thought we were discussing James Harden as best PG in the league and the past few pages have been about Stockton and Chris Paul and Isiah Thomas and Jason Kidd. LOL

 

Wilt played 0 defense. He didn't foul out of a game ever.

 

The word is spelled "choking" for the love of god.

 

If there's no mention of Russell, I doubt you're basketball knowledge. His stats weren't gaudy, but everyone knew he was the best, evidenced by his Rings and MVPs, he won MVP when wilt averaged 40 and the Big O averaged a trip dub. There's a reason they chose Russell as MVP over those two.

 

A simple eye test says CP3 cannot win a championship as a team's best player. He is just too easily stopped by a good defender in the crunch time.