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Castro dead.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Orange, Nov 25, 2016.

  1. Buck Turgidson

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    Building a wall around Florida sounds hilariously interesting.
     
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  2. Buck Turgidson

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    Sure, that and mass murder.
     
  3. Hustle Town

    Hustle Town Member

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  4. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Romney for SoS?
     
  5. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    We also need to build a wall to keep those honking b*stard Canadian Geese out as well. Might be a touch on the tall side.
     
  6. ferrari77

    ferrari77 Member

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    Without a doubt the last 25 or so years have shown little if any progress for Black Cubans but after Castro took power initially economically and socially life seemed like it would get better for them but at some point progress for the Black Cubans fell off Castro's "list of goals" and the economic hardships they faced after the fall of the USSR definitely made things worse for Black Cubans.

    I'm sure a significant number of black Cubans hate Castro pretty much like the white Cubans do.

    My point is that it's not a total "everyone hated him" or "everyone who liked Castro is a leftie" situation. A number of those that liked or appreciated Castro are from several countries in Africa that Castro assisted(obviously it was politically beneficial for him to do so but regardless he still came to their aid in times of war, repression and even disease(Ebola) while the rest of the west dithered).

    He was still a horrible dictator and did very few good things in his own country for his own people, at best.
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Actually only by those who hate him. There aren't many studies about how many mass murders he committed. He did imprison a lot of folks though.
     
  8. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    He declared gays as non-people and locked them up in labor camps. he enslaved his own people. he created one of the worst Healthcare and education systems in the world and killed anyone who spoke out against him. All Cubans hated him.
     
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Fidel Castro I'm guessing is going to be looked at like Mao is in the PRC. He will be publicly lionized while many acknowledge his many failures. Cuba will likely move to follow the model of the PRC and Vietnam with massive economic liberilazation focused on encouraging foreign investment while continuing to be a one party state.
     
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  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    This is type of frequent hyperbole that clouds discussion. Castro certainly was an oppressive dictator who quashed basic liberties but the Cuban health and education system is very good compared to pretty much the rest of the Carribean and in several factors compares with many European countries. Cuba's literacy rate is one of the highest in the World and one of Cuban's main exports is medical expertise. Cuba has also been becoming a destination for health care tourism.

    The embargo and the collapse of the Soviet Union certainly hurt it a lot and many of the problems were driven by lack of resources but if Cuba's healthcare was so hellish you wouldn't see Canadians going to Cuba for healthcare.

    Also this idea that all Cubans hated him is propaganda. If that was true the Castro regime wouldn't have lasted as long. As hard as it is for those of us who grew up in the US to understand is that many of these Marxist regimes do have a lot of popular support. Mao killed millions yet many in the PRC still revere him. Chavez was elected twice and there are many in Russia who miss the days of the Soviet Union.

    None of that is an excuse or defense for what those regimes did but just pointing out it is a mistake to believe that they were universally reviled among their own people.
     
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  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    On a tangent the reaction we're seeing towards Castro's death is another example of why I feel that if Sanders had won the Democratic nomination he still might've lost to Trump and likely more poor than Clinton. The Socialism tag is one that still carries a lot of weight in US politics and rhetoric.
     
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  12. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    Bullshit. All the stats you have on Cuban healthcare come from Castro. Talk to actual Cubans and doctor who have serviced the poor there. it is a nightmare. No sanitation.

    The education system is equally as awful.

    Cubans are putting their families on rickety boats and traversing shark infested waters for days to get away from a good healthcare and education system? wtf are you talking about.

    The healthcare tourists get is not the healthcare Cubans get........

    You clearly do not understand what has been going on in Cuba these past decades.....
     
    #72 tallanvor, Nov 27, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
  13. ferrari77

    ferrari77 Member

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    You've talked to/asked ALL Cubans? Seems a tall order but good work by you I guess.
     
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  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    So instead you rely upon a biased article that mainly presents anecdotes. Even your own article points out that Cuban doctors are very well trained and that the problem is a shortage of supplies and distribution of supplies.

    Try the World Health Organization
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000
    They put Cuba at 39th. Ahead of all of its neighbors, besides the US. Further the life expectancy rate of Cuba is 77/81 which according to WHO is very close to the US.
    http://www.who.int/countries/cub/en/
    http://www.who.int/countries/usa/en/

    According to the CIA's World Factbook on countries Cuba has a literacy rate of 99.8% which is higher than even the US 97.9%
    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/print_2103.html
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States#CIA_Factbook
    True they are because their economy is in shambles and they live under a repressive regime. Not surprisingly we see thousands of families from capitalist countries in Central America also risking their lives in deadly border crossing trying to leave to.
    True they don't but that is a direct counter to they point that Cuba's health care or education system is universally terrible. Your own article shows that Cuba's education system has turned out good doctrs and provides to those willing to pay (sounds similar to the US) high quality health care.
    Whereas you are basing your opinion on narrow selected information sources that just reinforce your bias that everything about Cuba has to be bad because you don't agree with them ideologically. I'm not saying that things aren't bad in Cuba. They are very bad.

    It's a disservice to open to discussion to just buy into that Cuba under the Castro is the worst of the worst. Just as it is a disservice to claim that Cuba is a workers' paradise. THose views will make it more difficult to open up better relations with Cuba and ultimately help the Cuban's reform.
     
  15. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    Of course. you cant trust stats that come from totalitarian government which is what the WHO is doing. So you simply ask Cubans who have managed to escape.....

    The article addresses this with the super high abortion rates in Cuba. They abort any child who shows the slightest chance of not surviving. THey do this just so they can dupe people like you and the WHO.


    If you think the literacy rate in Cuba is 99.8% then I don't know what to tell you RJ. For the love of god talk to some Cubans.

    Their economy is in shambles but they can afford top quality healthcare and education right? Glorious socialism must be greatly reducing those cost of drugs and CAT scans......

    No it isn't. The socialist healthcare system is not in play in Cuba's tourist healthcare system.

    I use anecdotes from doctors who have visited the country because using Castro's stats like you are is moronic.

    It is a disservice to Cubans to perpetuate a lie because it fits your ideology. They are suffering greatly and tell you so and you turn your head cause Castro gives you fake stats.
     
  16. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    What I look for in a health care provider is antiquated equipment and lack of supplies. The roadblock to having an open dialogue is an oppressive dictator who squashes all dissent.
     
  17. Wolverrines

    Wolverrines Member

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    Damn wonder what words of praise he will say about Kim Jong-un
     
  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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  19. WNBA

    WNBA Member

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    After seeing Trump in reign, he rested in peace.
     
  20. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I don't support dictators, and there is no doubt that Castro was a dictator.

    Having said, a couple points to consider....

    Why is Cuba's economy in shambles? What country the size of Cuba would do well financially having the United States miles away with serious embargo/sanctions? Not many.

    Concerning the opinions of Cubans IN the USA; of course they are not going to like Castro.... they fled Cuba when the revolution happened. Many of those that fled supported the corrupt Batista and were the upper middle class in Cuba. Their opinions on the topic isn't inclusive of all of Cuba or even the majority of Cubans.
     

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