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Why Aren't Donald Trump's Epic Conflicts of Interest Illegal?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Invisible Fan, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Do Trumpers give a **** about this?


    Former White House ethics lawyers explain.

    With Donald Trump’s global business empire already reaching such nations as Azerbaijan, Turkey, Indonesia, and the United Arab Emirates—and eager to enter new realms—the potential for conflicts of interests both domestically and internationally has long been obvious.

    It’s clear also that the “blind trust” candidate Trump has been talking about setting up since last January between himself and those far-flung business interests will be neither blind, nor a trust, nor provide any meaningful insulation whatsoever.

    He will let his adult children run his businesses, he has said, even though they are also now serving on his transition team, will certainly stay in close touch with him, and may well serve as de facto advisers on presidential business as well. (CBS News reported Monday that Trump is seeking top secret security clearances for his children.)


    Several people have asked me why the federal conflicts of interest law, which bars every lowly executive branch official from acting on matters that affect their personal financial interests, won’t apply to President Donald Trump.


    To find out answers to that and related inquiries, I did some research and also spoke to Richard Painter and Norman Eisen, the former top White House ethics counsels for George W. Bush (2005-2007) and Barack Obama (2009-2011). Here are the answers.

    Why doesn’t the federal conflicts of interest law apply to the President?

    Congress was most likely avoiding direct confrontations between branches of government, which would also raise Constitutional issues.

    The Constitution sets out the qualifications for being President (things like being at least 35 years old and a “natural born citizen”). If Congress added supplemental strictures, those could at least be challenged in court as unconstitutional.

    The conflicts of interest law—which carries federal criminal penalties—avoids those issues by exempting the President and Vice President from its provisions.

    It also leaves out members of Congress (though not their staffs), perhaps, similarly, to avoid confrontations with prosecutors from the executive branch. Each branch of Congress has set up its own ethical rules, which that branch alone enforces.

    Do Presidents, then, simply govern despite conflicts of interest?

    Not in the past 50 years.

    According to Painter, “every other President in modern times has tried as best they could to act as if the law did apply to them.” President Reagan, both Bushes, Clinton, and Obama, all used “blind trusts” to manage assets, he says. Painter is now a professor at the University of Minnesota Law School.

    (Vice President Dick Cheney was dogged by criticism for allegedly not adequately severing his relationship to Halliburton, the oil services company he had once run. In that instance—trivial when compared to the conflicts Trump is gearing up to incur—he merely continued to receive deferred compensation and options proceeds, which he had pledged to donate to charity.)

    What’s a blind trust exactly?

    With a true blind trust, Painter says, a president would typically sell his business, and then have an independent trustee—someone with no familial ties—reinvest the proceeds in assets the president doesn’t even know have been selected.

    That would be very difficult for Trump. Without such an elaborate divestiture, are the conflicts really so serious?

    “Profound,” argues Eisen, who is now with the Brookings Institution. “They are the most serious set of business conflicts any president has faced in modern times.”

    Like what?

    The “core conflict” is that “real estate businesses often thrive on easy money from banks,” according to Painter. That industry and the banking industry therefore “have a mutual interest in loose credit and loose regulation,” he continues. So Trump’s stated goal of “dismantling” the Dodd-Frank reforms of 2010 presents at least the appearance of a personal conflict. (The Trump Organization and campaign did not immediately respond to an inquiry seeking comment. In a statement to the New York Times published Monday evening, the organization said: “We are in the process of vetting various structures with the goal of the immediate transfer of management of the Trump Organization and its portfolio of businesses to Donald Jr., Ivanka and Eric Trump along with a team of highly skilled executives. . . . This is a top priority at the organization, and the structure that is ultimately selected will comply with all applicable rules and regulations.”

    So are there no other existing restraints? Are we simply at Trump’s mercy when it comes to conflicts?

    Well, if Congress thinks an abuse of power becomes obvious and outlandish, it could impeach him. Federal criminal bribery statutes apply to presidents, too, but only for egregious and blatant abuses. Then there’s the emoluments clause, too.

    What’s the emoluments clause and how does it factor in?

    Article I, Section 9, Clause 8 of the Constitution bars federal officers from, among other things, accepting, without the consent of Congress, payments and gifts “of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.” The Justice Department has interpreted this provision very broadly.

    A retired Army officer, for instance, who wanted to take a post as a visiting professor at a foreign university, would have to jump through multiple hoops, seeking permission from both the Army and the State Department. The same would go for a Navy reservist who joins a private law firm that happens to have a sovereign wealth fund as a client—even if the reservist doesn’t work on that account.

    In Donald Trump’s case, according to the New York Times, at least one of his businesses has outstanding loans from the Bank of China, which is majority owned by the state. Loans typically have dozens of conditions, and if the bank were to ever forgive or forbear on any of those, or Trump were to negotiate a refinancing, it would be scrutinized microscopically to see if it was a “gift.” If Trump’s policy toward China were tough, it might look like was exerting pressure in an effort to win better terms on his company’s loans. If his policy were accommodating, it might look like he feared retaliation by the bank in the form of tighter terms on those same loans.

    White House ethics lawyers ordinarily pore over presidents’ tax forms each years (and those of cabinet members and nominees) to make sure there are no emoluments problems. Because Trump has refused to make his returns public, scrutiny of potential problems has been impossible so far.

    Is there anything the public can do to protect itself right now?

    Painter recommends that Congress pass a law right now that would require that when a President or his businesses have specific matters pending before a federal agency—like, say, an Internal Revenue Service audit, or a case before the National Labor Relations Board or the Securities and Exchange Commission, or a licensing issue before the Federal Communications Commission—that the matter must be decided by a career civil servant, rather than by a political appointee. (Trump has said that his taxes are currently under audit, and his hotels are also known to have active disputes with unions pending before the NLRB.) In the event that a White House official tried to intervene in any such matter, Painter continues, the bill he envisions would require the agency to notify the House and Senate oversight committees.

    Eisen would go further still. He believes that the Congress has the constitutional power to extend the existing conflicts of interest law to cover the President, and he thinks Congress should try to do so. “If the drafters of the conflicts law had foreseen something on this scale,” he says, “they never would have exempted the President and Vice President.”
     
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  2. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    'might look like' seems to be the operative phrase here. The potential appearance of conflict without any actual evidence of it.

    If it becomes an issue, then an issue will certainly be made of it. Similar conflicts abound in Congress and elsewhere, without much fanfare, even when evidence of actual issues did come up. There isn't really any way Trump could, or even should, sell all his holdings. As someone who campaigned heavily on the various appearances of conflict with the Clinton foundation, he would certainly get slammed if the same things started occurring on his side. So, I'm willing to assume they won't...until there is evidence otherwise.
     
  3. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    I get the feeling the people who devised these rules were rich and saw themselves in a different class than the rest of society. Strange.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Granville

    Granville Member

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  5. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Talking about the rule of laws doesn't apply to her, I mean him.
     
  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    By who, and what will be their recourse? A pliant congress? A trump led DOJ?

    This is what happens when you install a would-be autocrat who believes the rules don't apply to them.
     
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  7. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Trump has shamelessly said he take full advantage of tax loop holes to not pay any income taxes. Given his disregard for judge orders and what he has said, what make you think he won't take full advantage of laws very favorable to those in power for his business gains?

    Just remember how much people hit on the Clinton for their foundation - the appearance of corruption was enough to rile against her as the most corrupted politician ever, never mind the purpose of the foundation is to help those in need. And so when we see the appearance of corruption from Trump businesses, let's see if these same people will be as furious.
     
  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Bottom line is that the right will let Trump be as corrupt as he wants because it's a sick double standard.
     
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  9. dmoneybangbang

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    At least we know who the Trump sympathizers are here. We can continue to ask them why they thought Clinton would be worse. Pretty impressive what's Trump done before he is even sworn in.
     
  10. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    If he were to continue heading those companies those conflicts of interest would create legal issues.... but he's turning those over to his family .... problem solved.

    You want me to explain why Hilary is the more evil option - It is really quite simple.

    She has violated the law enough that she should be in prison .... Just the fact that she has not been indicted is a slap in the face to Lady Justice who is suppose to be blind to everything beside the FACTS of any given case. For the things she did in hiding the email issues she should be in federal prison.

    1 Destroyed evidence
    2 lied under oath
    3 violated a congressional subpoena
    4 obstruction of justice

    Throw in the misdeeds of the Clinton Foundation:

    The theft and deceit after the disaster in Haiti - They stole Billions.
    Pay for play , taking $$ for political favor and doing so with HOSTILE states.

    Her ties to the big banks and speeches she gave talking about no borders in the entire hemisphere .... and they paid her millions for "speeches" .... yeah right.



    And we haven't even gotten to actual policy yet .....

    Gun control
    Increase taxes
    Doing nothing about illegal immigration
    Obamacare ....
    Increased federal regulations on business
    Increased federal regulations on energy production
    Her positions on NAFTA and TransPac.


    Her foreign policy is a joke .... her time as Sec of state was a monumental disaster (Benghazi) and she was part of the decision making process that gave Iran hundreds of billions of dollars in exchange for hostages .... that they will undoubtedly use to become a nuclear power. Paying a ransom makes Americans unsafe traveling abroad ....


    Trump & Hillary are pretty much polar opposites on each one of those issues ....



    Need more ?!
     
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  11. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    Try replying with something - anything - truthful and we can have a real conversation
     
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  12. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    It's hard to pack more misinformation into one post than what you did.
     
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    How did the Clinton Foundation steal billions in Haiti?

    Red cross frittered away billions in Haiti. Not one word of outrage about that in the angry white man sphere.
     
  14. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    They didn't, and that's only one of the things that are fiction in his post. There was a lot of crookedness going on in Haiti and the aid effort.
     
  15. dmoneybangbang

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    So you don't see the issue of the president having his family members run his "blind trust"? Do you know the point of a blind trust?



    Policy aside, now list all of Trump's misdeed and lets see objective you are.
     
  16. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

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    Speaking of conflicts of interest, how in the high holy hell did Trump get away with this "blind trust" nonsense when his freaking KIDS are the ones running it? How in the eff is that "blind"? Why didn't anyone press that issue?
     
  17. dmoneybangbang

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  18. dmoneybangbang

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    Because he's a great showman who talks his way out of the unwritten rules of the modern presidencies, like producing his taxes.
     
  19. calurker

    calurker Member

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    It's ok, it's not like his kids will know the things that will go down because they have security clearance.

    Oh wait.
     
  20. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    LOL at all the poor white people who voted for Trump thinking he will be looking out for them. I have a guess as to who Trump will be looking out for and it start with T.
     

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