[Stein] Rockets Latest DMo offer "multiyear starts at a fully guaranteed $7m in Yr 1"

Spoiler: Non DMo talk about Udrih

Interesting discussion. Maybe we should move to Dish? I'll use Spoilers instead.

Thx for the tip on Nate Duncan. Always interested in following other capologists out there like BimaThug.

Nate Duncan's tweet calling for an investigation was prior to Udrih getting picked up off waivers. In fact, people asked him that very question.



Maybe there is an investigation if no team actually wanted him. Certainly, Riley is known to stretch the limits of legality.

But as we saw, Detroit did grab him off waivers. So, the market wanted his minimum contract. Thus, Miami never paid him anymore money to make up for the buyout. Detroit did. And since Detroit grabbed him of waivers, we can assume they feared another team would, if they didn't.

I couldn't find any Duncan comments after Detroit grabbed him. Would be very interested in his further take. Can you share, or point to a podcast for me to listen to.

 

Spoiler: Non DMo talk about Udrih

Detroit took over his entire contract.

Larry Coon FAQ#65
Few players are actually claimed while on waivers, since the claiming team inherits his entire contract. It is far more common for teams to wait for the player to clear waivers, and then sign him to a much smaller (even minimum salary) contract.​

That's why the person in the tweet to Duncan asked "What if someone picks him up off waivers."

As for screwing the league out of Tax Money. It's not about Joe Johnson, as BKN paid his salary. (Miami only paid Johnson $400k, and I'm not even sure if that is taxable as vet minimum salary.) The lost money would be due to whatever Udrih gave up, right? I'm sure they sign Joe Johnson regardless. If it stops there, I don't even think Duncan gets upset. It's only after Miami resigns him. Right? Isn't that the key point to investigating Quid Pro Quo.

I can see the side that says it's shady quid pro quo. But we got Lawson to take a buyout as well, to avoid taxes. So, although those are two different things....owners do buyouts to avoid taxes all the time. imo, Duncan's correct point is did the player get another contract from the same team in return the buyout.

In the end, Detroit is paying for the new contract. So, I can see the argument that it didn't go to the point of investigation, because Miami, at worst, just showcased Udrih in preseason post surgery, and a team picked him up....his entire contract. I can see there being no complaints coming from other owners or the union ... since the altruists would say Udrih got screwed by the injury/surgery, and Miami helped him find a new team.

 

Detroit is paying all his salary. All 100%.

Spoiler: non DMo talk about Udrih

Larry Coon FAQ #65
"If a team makes a successful waiver claim, it acquires the player and his existing contract, and pays the remainder of his salary -- the waiving team is relieved of all responsibility for the player.

Few players are actually claimed while on waivers, since the claiming team inherits his entire contract. It is far more common for teams to wait for the player to clear waivers, and then sign him to a much smaller (even minimum salary) contract."
​

Spoiler: fwiw: details on waiver rules

When you clear waivers, your contract actually terminates. "Waivers" means giving all teams the right to pass (or not) on taking over your contract. If a team picks you up before clearing waivers, the contract is assigned to the new team, as if the player was traded.

You are thinking of the right of "Set off". Where someone like Josh Smith in 2015 is waived and clears waivers and can sign a brand new contract. Detroit is on the hook for the guaranteed money of his terminated contract, but if the Rockets sign him to a new contract for above minimum (which rarely happens, but did in this case because Josh was a hot commodity), then Detroit can subtract anything Rockets signed him for, above the minimum. Waiving team must pay at least the minimum salary portion of the terminated contract.

That doesn't apply to Udrih, since the contract was assigned to Detroit. Detroit grabbed him before he cleared waivers. Miami is free and clear.

So, if you want to talk more about this, my last post still stands. Miami never actually paid him again. Detroit is. Thus, since buyouts to avoid tax happen all the time, naybe Duncan is only upset if the buyout team gives the player his next contract. But, in this case, Detroit took over the contract during pre-season.

I can't find anything Duncan said after Detroit took over the contract.​

​

 

Spoiler

And I'm saying the buyout to save from paying taxes happens all the time. They are completely legal.

As you say, Duncan calls for an investigation after Miami signs him and waives him again. Yes that looks shoddy. But Duncan was asked "What if someone takes over his contract." I'm just asking, did Duncan's call for investigation stop once Detroit took over the contract in preseason.

And btw: it looks like Udrih only gave up $50k to save $100k in taxes. Here's the complaints last year. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/14870954/miami-heat-buyout-beno-udrih-several-teams-upset

So, it wasn't about steep tax payments. The complaints were that Miami remained part of the pool to receive payouts. And likely, teams were just pissed Joe Johnson signed with them for minimum.

bottomline:

illegal trades and collusion to get free agents impacts rosters, and impact competitive advantage on the court. Even if wrong for resigning Udrih, Miami gained no direct competitive advantage on the court for the buyout. They would have signed Joe Johnson anyhow. They saved $50k on Udrih's contract, saving $100k in taxes, and got $2.6m in tax revenue. Rockets and another team getting around the SnT rule with DMo seems like a much bigger deal to me, because it directly impacts rosters on two teams. It not only breaks trade rules, but it would be two teams colluding on a free agent's contract....to match or not.​

 

Spoiler

We really should move this to NBA Dish. This is my last post here on Udrih.

Penalties are covered in the NBA Constitution and By-laws between owners. I'm not up on that, because it was a secret document until recently. But we do know that breaking some rules are much more harshly penalized than others. So yes, I would say breaking rules to gain a direct competitive advantage are much more harshly penalized than a Udrih buyout for $50k....thus much less likely to happen.

The logic of saying everything happens the same amount doesn't fly with me, which seemed to me what you were saying at the beginning. "These things happen all the time."

and I'm still asking, is Duncan continuing to call for an investigation after Detroit took over Udrih's contract. I can only find him saying that prior to Detroit taking over the contract.

lastly -- I can see Silver actually investigating some owner complaints that Miami shouldn't have received the $2.6m revenue-sharing payment reported last year, and not making the decision public. Isn't that all a messy, slippery slop to say no one should benefit from players taking less salary. Just a big mess, imo.

 

$7m offer mentioned again, this time saying DMo refused the offer. They say it's a "long-standing offer." Maybe not new at all. Just the Deadline date was new???

Bev's return also mentioned. "Likely Thursday."

----------------------------------------------------------------

Told that for the first time this season the Rockets could be whole with Pat Beverley back this week, likely Thursday against the Portland Trail Blazers, Rockets coach Mike D'Antoni corrected with a reference to unsigned free agent Donatas Motiejunas.

"Almost," D'Antoni said. "We still have Motiejunas out there. I think we'll have to pick him up in Canada somewhere."
​

Motiejunas might not be considered on the team, having refused to accept the Rockets offer worth $7 million in the first season. He has remained training in Vancouver. A person with knowledge of the situation said Monday there have been no negotiations or ongoing talks and no changes in the Rockets' long-standing offer.

http://www.chron.com/sports/rockets/article/Rockets-still-waiting-on-Donatas-Motiejunas-10616129.php​

 

Considering how much he used Instagram last year for w/o photos, I find it odd he hasn't posted any this year.

Maybe he wasn't the one posting the recovery workout pictures last year, but rather Morey was, or was strongly encouraging him to. And maybe Morey "Showcasing" the workout photos is more appropriate of a term than "posting up" DMo's pictures.