DMO's agent "Rockets not doing enough to re sign him"

He's playing on a new system with new players a new coach and it's preseason so he can be more experimental. He'll be fine.

 

We can talk about Hardens turnovers during preseason but one thing to consider is that the rockets are #4 in TOV at just 14.5 per game and #1 in APG at 27.3 per game.

So to me, Harden's TO haven't really hurt the team and wouldn't you want your best play maker trying to make plays...

 

If this holds, we have no worries offensively.

 

I see what you're saying, if All of your turnovers are belong to Harden, then what's the real issue?

 

The NET TURNOVERS I'm talking about are the primary playmakers net turnovers. Not the teams net turnovers. Every coach and team in the Association knows the weight of net turnovers on a teams winning percentage. This is precisely why Morey has bookended Harden with inferior offensive players in Ariza and Bev. Because Ariza and Bev historically are possession creators with their defense and steals. We've needed all the defensive turnovers those guys have come up with to offset Hardens record-setting turnovers.

As far as creativity goes, Harden can't be creative without being high turnover. Playmakers like Paul and Rubio can. Harden relies on a standard set of moves while on the dribble. Don't get me wrong. They are fantastic moves and very entertaining. But they are high risk moves. He doesn't have the creativity of guys like Rubio and Paul to get around and through defenders a myriad of different ways. He either uses the pick or when iso'd he stares down the barrel and uses games to get the defender out of position. It's great to watch. I like watching him break down defenders. But...........it is not efficient enough. Usually a couple times a game the defender pokes the ball out and when defenders tight for long stretches Harden does throw the ball away while being "creative" with the ball.

Creative is not running the same stuff over and over where everybody in the arena and on tv knows what's coming. When you watch Paul and Rubio move and the passes they make they'd simply no way you can equate Hardens alleged creativity to theirs. They are on a different level when it comes to ball distribution. Much more creative and much more efficient.

Harden is a good playmaker. He is ideally suited to be the second playmaker and first scorer on a championship team.....which is exactly the role Michael Jordan played. Jordan didn't win a single championship as his teams main distributor. He always had either Pippen or Kukoc delivering him and the team the basketball. He then either scored the ball (most of the time) or made a pay fit somebody else off his scoring thrust (which is exactly how Harden operates).

Harden needs his distributor to win championships just like Jordan did.

 

Ricky ****ing Rubio, turns the ball over on more than 21% of his possessions.

James Harden, turns the ball over on under under 16% of his possessions.

 

What's with all the off topic talk? This is a DMo thread...

 

Until bballholic once again is forced to run away from the site due to the overwhelming weight of all of his hilariously wrong predictions, every thread is a Ricky Rubio thread.

Once he leaves, that will change.

.... until he returns under a new username.

 

It's Ricky Rubio's world, we're all just living in it.

 

If Harden can shleve the in traffic pocket pass and the iso stationary dribble at the top of the key, he would be golden.

 

You have no idea what any of that means nor the meaninglessness of it.

 

You are incapable of refuting anything I just wrote.

 

He has shot 31% throughout his entire career. He shot above 30% only once in his 4 seasons in Houston. He averages less than two 3PA every season, including his best season where he shot 37%. For comparison's sake, Ryan Anderson basically averages 3x more 3PAs than D-Mo per game.

That 60 game stretch is not near big enough of a sample size to qualify him as a consistent 3PT shooter, especially when he has shot sub-30% from 3 in 3 seasons.

 

The thing is though that he is getting better, you can't use career percentages when there is so little data, it is more likely the last year - where he did struggle coming off injury - he is probably going to settle in the 38% range, which would be pretty good....and could go higher.

DD

 

I could say the same.

 

Harden isn't Jordan he doesn't have the scoring ability of Jordan making him an off the ball player like Jordan is like destroying half of his game. You say a lot of stuff here but everything you just pointed out are subjective, Harden is only "creative" when he throws the ball away? The stats say he's only 1 turnover more than Curry and Curry was good enough to win a championship. Rubio hasn't even played in the playoffs yet so honestly why would I want to make Harden be like Rubio when Rubio can't do ****? If anything it proves your point wrong because the guy you're claiming is the person who has low turnover and extremely creative gets his ass handed to him every year.

If your net turnover rating just applies to stars rather than the team then I'm sorry but you're just plain wrong, how is 1-2 turnovers the difference between winning a championship? Hell, make Harden the worst turnover guy in the league at 4 turnovers a night and it won't move the needle a lot, you're just making a mountain out of a molehill because the difference between turnovers between stars players is only 1-2 turnovers apart. My steal example is a good demonstration of this Ariza increasing his steals to 4 steals a game has as much impact as Harden becoming the least turnover pg at only 1 turnovers a game. Are you then saying Ariza becoming the steal king will win a championship? This argument you keep making is so bad I don't know how you came up with it. The whole objective of the match is to score the most points not have the best individual performance. Sure individual performance has a lot of impact but it also depends on the scale of production, if we're just talking about 1-2 turnovers that's just a 4 pt swing which is not enough to make a big impact. Curry has more turnovers than Rubio but since he's a much better shooter then it doesn't matter how good Rubio is at "creating" his 1 less turnover means jacksquat in the face of Curry's 40+% 3 pt shooting rate. In fact one three point shot from Curry makes a bigger impact than 1 turnover saved by Rubio's creativity which is why Rubio hasn't even played in the postseason while Curry already has a ring. So stop making it about the star player's individual turnover rating like it makes a big deal because it doesn't, unless you can argue that 1-2 turnovers saved PER GAME will win you the game over other factors.

P.S. I know this thread is about DMO but there's nothign to say here, like what DD says it is about poker at this point. DMo is obviously a good player and the Rockets know it which is why they are playing hard ball, they want him on the team long term and that can only happen if he signs cheap because we have to pay a lot of guys including Nene who is only making 2M this year.

 

You'd be right. There's nothing in your writing to refute because you're not saying anything.

 

Just full of ridiculousness. I don't want harden to be like Rubio. You shouldn't either.

1 more turnover a game is a lot when you're talking about playing at championship level. You don't understand how important it is.

Harden isn't Jordan but he's mire like Jordan than any other layer in his mentality. Drive it, draw contract, finish, shoot the J when the D overcompensates, dish when you get guys wide open off scoring thrusts. That's MJ offensively and that's Harden. Harden is more like MJ offensively than Kobe or any other player. Scorer first. Distributor second.

Tell MDA he's making a mountain out of a molehill. He has charged harden turnovers get his turnovers down.

 

Well duh, obviously you want Harden to improve his turnovers because it's a lot. But he's still making Harden the point guard and the Rockets aren't exactly taking the ball out of his hands and making him an off the ball scorer. That means given the choice of having him be creative and have turnovers or making him off the ball and lessen his turnovers they want him to be creative and primary ball handler. That's like when GSW coach says Curry must play better defense but still plays him when Curry's D is bad.

I understand 1 more turnover is a lot but I also understand there are a lot more factors more important than 1 more turnover. You act like everything is equal and because Harden has more turnover then his team loses. But team levels are never equal it's all about tradeoffs, Harden since becoming PG has at least 3 more assists per game in less minutes played than last year when there was more emphasis on him becoming an off the ball scorer. Those increased assists have a lot more impact than the 1 more turnover which is so important to you.

I don't really know what to say about your MJ comparison to Harden and how Harden is even closer to MJ than Kobe. First of all they play completely different Harden is a much better playmaker and 3 pt shooter while MJ has a much better mid range and post scoring game. If your only basis the drive and kick then so many players do it as well including John Wall, Westbrick and Lebron so I don't why you'll say Harden is the closest player to MJ wtf.

 

Ariza didn't shoot more than 1 3PA and over 30% until his 5th season in the NBA. Yet he is a career 35% 3pt shooter and is considered by many the classic 3&D player. Kyle Lowry didn't become a good 3pt shooter until his 5th season. And he too is a career 35% 3pt shooter.

DMo's smaple size is indeed too small to predict anything. But it is at least a promising sign that the one season when he got consistent minutes, he shot well.