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Trump 2016: Yes. We. Can.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Honey Bear, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

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    Nope. His supporters don't care! This guy absolutely bombed last night and it hasn't affected him. The narrative has flipped to, "you don't need to know everything that's why you have advisors."

    This guys is dangerous because he doesn't care to know any of this stuff. Trump admitted he didn't need to know this stuff because, "common sense."

    oh boy..
     
  2. dmoneybangbang

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    His base doesn't care, you are right. How about the people on the fence? Gary Johnson will siphon off those votes and most of the rest will reluctantly vote for Clinton. It's just the first "debate" also, give it a little longer.
     
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Trump openly sucks Putins pipe and the right doesn't seem bothered. If a dem did this they would want their head.
     
  4. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    They really Really would. If this were say McCain vs Clinton, and she were saying how much she respected Putin. Boy oh boy the fire and brimstone that would rain down on her would be epic.
     
  5. Buck Turgidson

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    Nah, Putin's been cool with them ever since GW said he looked into his soul and saw a nice guy, or a carebear or something.
     
  6. Dei

    Dei Member

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    What?! It's the Dems that are fans of pipe-sucking.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. dmoneybangbang

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    LOL @ Putin. He should be more worried about his domestic TB and HIV crisis. May not have many soldiers in fighting shape soon.
     
  8. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    What the hell is the obsession with "the oil"?
     
  9. London'sBurning

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    *Ahem*

    [​IMG]
     
  10. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  11. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    You know what they say. It's hard to separate the men from the boys in the GOP, but at least they wear condoms.
     
  12. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/29CqXrcuzbo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  13. okierock

    okierock Member

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    It's really more about the fact he hates Obama.
     
  14. hlcc

    hlcc Member

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    Depleted military? We have by far the largest military budget in the world, in fact our military budget is larger than that of China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, UK, India, France, Japan, Germany, South Korea, Brazil & Australia combined! Our military budget is so bloated we are currently spending billions on upgrading/producing tanks, cruisers & aircrafts that the army/navy/airforce don't even want.
     
  15. dmoneybangbang

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    It's more to the fact that Russia has terrible demographics and terrible geography. This is Russia's last hoo-rah without some significant changes to it's immigration policy or promoting more babies being born.

    Also, with oil prices being so low for over 2 years, saber rattling is a great way to distract their citizens from it's poor economy. They'll need that considering the HIV epidemic and tuberculosis rates.
     
  16. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    This is your best post ever...
     
  17. TesseracT

    TesseracT Member

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    Why is it a big deal that Trump has respect for Putin. He even said he doesn't like the way Putin runs his country or agree with his policies but he is a strong leader. You can hate him and his policies all you want but can't disagree with the fact that he is a strong leader.

    Would you rather we have a President that doesn't get along with Putin and increases tensions between us and Russia?

    These same lefties are the people who complain about constant wars but don't want to get along with other countries. That makes a ton of sense.
     
  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    We currently have a president that works with Putin - what will Trump do differently other than dipping Putin's schlong in koolaid, covering it with sugar then sucking on it like a 3 year old.

    I am too proud of American to see my president suck Putin's schlong covered in sugar and like it so much.
     
  19. dmoneybangbang

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    Putin is a strong leader because he can silence dissidents (forever). Putin is a strong leader because he controls what information the general population gets to see. Putin is a strong leader because he is essentially a dictator.

    What checks and balances are put on Putin? What checks and balances are put on Obama?

    Tensions between the US and Russia/USSR has been from strained to Col War since 1945. Russia has to be aggressive since it's future is relatively bleak.
     
  20. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    I think you have it backwards. Because Russia United is a such a strong party, and his support so strong within it, he can pretty much do whatever he wants because he has that much political capital. And people are happy to give it to him because he has exceeded all expectations in terms of what he's been able to accomplish.

    There's a narrative that he's some kind of typical despot, when the reality is that he has operated as a rational actor that's made decisions that benefitted his nation as a whole.

    Putin's anti-US stance has been developing since he was snubbed post-9/11. If you recall, he was one of the most visible and outspoken supporters of the US after the terror attack. The reason why was because he wanted US support of his own war in Chechnya. By his reasoning (and on this I think he was right) the conflict of Russia vs Chechnya was just one theater of battle in the war on Islamic extremism.

    Chechnya was the birthplace of many things that are now part of the new normal: Saudi money pouring in to build mosques and schools and arm terrorists, posting beheading videos on the Internet (begun at the time to show their benefactors a return on investment), as well as scenes of civilians indiscriminately bombed. Grozy, as you might recall, was pretty much steamrolled by the Russian army and victory was declared against the insurgency, a pro-Putin leader was installed there, and the mujahidin that volunteered there went to fight infidels somewhere else (many ending up later in Syria).

    Bush wouldn't go for an endorsement of Chechnya as part of the War in Terror. He also wouldn't nudge on putting missiles in Poland, which Russia was told then and now, were to protect Poland from a hypothetical attack...from Iran. Russia pointed out that this was bull****, and claimed it violated existing treaties...which it did.

    When Obama was elected, there was no reversal on these things. From a Russian point of view, the US was hypocritical, acting in self-interest rather than for the common good, and disingenuous in intent. When Russia invaded Crimea and um..."didn't" invade Eastern Ukraine, it was seen by Russians as doing little different in a political climate with the deck stacked against them.

    And that's only an explanation of his most controversial actions. People who may not like him still support him because he put an end to the whorehouse republic run by oligarchs in the 90s. Crime plummeted, natural resources were now subject to control by the government and no longer for sale to the highest bidder. My own experiences were more with the diamond trade than oil or natural gas, but Russia has become the world's largest diamond supplier (among other things) and the industry is tightly controlled to make sure Russia get's its cut of the spoils from anyone who mines there.

    Russia's present may not be ideal with it's petroleum-heavy economy, but it has done a much better job diversifying under Putin than it did in the 90s. It's future looks safer at least, than it used to. Russia is Russia -- it's not going to attract the world's wealthiest and most educated to build startups or contribute to its economy other than from exploiting natural resources, but its hardly Venezuela or Nigeria.

    From a Russian perspective, you'd be very unlikely to get more out of a leader than they have from Putin. On the world stage he is arguably the most competent world leader, certainly one of the most popular at home and abroad. He's shrewd, he's well informed, he's decisive, and he's good at keeping his agreements when he makes them. Because Europe is so dependant on Russian energy, especially as countries like Germany are shutting down powerplants as they are moving to a greener economy, he knows he can get away with things like his adventurism in Ukraine with little more than a slap on the wrist. Nevermind a world war -- he can simply turn off the lights.

    Nevermind the nationalistic pageantry at home from his mouth-breathing followers,either. His own moves are cold and calculated and he's yet to screw up in a major way.

    Putin's supporters control the bulk of media and set the narrative, that's absolutely true. You know who else does that? Silvio Berlusconi. Rupert Murdoch. Sheldon Adelson. Why is the ill effect of media consolidation such a cause for concern for democracy in Russia and not in the US and Western Europe?

    Yes, Russians are overtly nationalistic, xenophobic, sexist, paranoid, obsessed with their anthems and flags, anti-intellectual, obsessed with what gay people do in the privacy of their homes, dress mostly in sports apparel, and have little interest or knowledge of world affairs. If this bothers you and causes you to have a bad impression of Russians, take a good look around you in the D&D and tell me with a straight face how a very similar national group with a much, much larger military and influence in world affairs should be treated differently. ;)

    There's a really bizarre way the US and UK presses depict Putin and contemporary Russia that I think speaks to old grudges, from the Cold War and even before. I think it leads to misunderstanding of who he is and a poor read of how his decision-making works.



    Political capital, whether by consent of the electorate, or anything else. Putin does what he does if he believes it to be in his country's self-interest, if the risk is acceptable, and...if he can. President of the United States is a far more powerful position with far more reach, but the main advantage Putin has over Obama (or any president) is that he isn't beholden to his oligarchs and monied interests the way our leaders are. Our pay-to-play democracy has that unfortunate weakness and the rest of the world is figuring out how to exploit it.



    Tensions between the US and Russia are older than that. When you invade a country with armed forces and intervene in a civil war on the side that loses, it usually is not real good for future diplomacy.

    Russia has a long history of treating its own people as expendable, but its leadership, even back to the ass-backward Russian Empire, much less the Soviet Union has been one where they have understood the existential necessity of keeping agreements. the Russian narrative of the origins of the Cold War are pretty different than the US one.

    It goes something like this:
    Stalin, Roosevelt, and Churchill made an agreement at Yalta to respect spheres of influence in post-war Europe. Roosevelt kept Churchill in check, but when he died, things changed. Then Greece, under the Russian sphere at the time, as per Yalta, elected a communist government. The British, with US support, intervened because it wasn't a democratic change of government (and true, it wasn't). But that wasn't the agreement, and Russia rightfully saw it as an excuse to backtrack on a previous treaty meant to prevent these kinds of conflicts of interest.

    Considering that a generation before, British and American forces were trying to forcefully create a regime change and you can kind of understand why there would be a lack of trust. And from a Russian point of view, we still keep doing it. Hillary Clinton's relationship with Russia was a doubling a down of most of the previous administration's mistakes. She actually managed to make that relationship worse, and I'm not even talking about the cringeworthy "restart."

    No one should be surprised Putin doesn't like her, or supports the eagerly useful idiot in Trump. Yes Russia is a ****ed up place, but a century of strained relations is just as much from Western interference as it is from Russian belligerence.
     
    #7740 Deji McGever, Sep 10, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
    4 people like this.

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