Morey has always said you need top 10 offense and defense to contend. One is not more important than the other. Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, LeBron, Wilt, Garnett I'd say most greats are great on both ends. There are exceptions, such as Russell or Magic. Except those stats don't count specific situations, whereas ppp in ISOS at least takes into account that it's an ISO. And yes I'm aware Harden was worse last season after being great 2 years ago,mainly because of conditioning. That's been my position all along. And watching the Drew league videos doesn't make me hopeful about the upcoming year.
It does not include misses when fouls are called. If a foul is called and the shot doesn't go in, there is no FGA counted. TS% includes free throws and accounts for 3 pointers. EFG% accounts for 3 pointers.
All answers are wrong. The TS% has formula: T S % = P T S /[ 2 ( F G A + ( 0.44 × F T A ) )] It is claimed that TS% takes into consideration of 3 points, FTs including technical FT. The factor 0.44 is not arbitrary, it has to be derived from NBA data in past seasons to make more sense scientifically. Considering how game is played now than decades ago, do you think the factor 0.44 will still be the same if we reproduce the TS% formula in the same procedure but considering new data in the last a few seasons? since 0.44 is based on date from NBA, will the factor 0.44 be suitable for WNBA, NBDL, high school, or FIBA which also has different 3points line, or we should have different factor rather than 0.44 in WNBA, NBDL, high school or FIBA? Here is example about how confusing is TS%. player A, has 8 out of 8 3 pointers. This is 24 points Player B, has 8 out of 8 3 pointers and 8 out 8 FTs. This is 32 points You'd think that player B is as good as player A offensively if not better since he is perfect on additional FTs. Now let's check their TS%, player A: 24/[2*(8+0.44*0)] = 150% player B: 32/[2*(8+0.44*8)] = 139% player B is 11% lower than player A?! any TS% believers still believe it?
You should read what I wrote more carefully. You need a top 5 offense to win. You do NOT need a top 5 defense to win. Scoring points will always be the name of the game. There is a reason why people who excel at offense are far more important to teams than people who excel at defense. Greats are usually great at both? I will have to disagree with this. Most of them are above average to good, but definitely not great. Great 2 way players are the exception to the rule and the ones that ARE great on both ends are the really, really special ones. You know what EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM (except Bill Russell)? Offense! Noticing a common trend here that all top players share? I honestly don't follow your comment about Harden. He's taken part of the Drew League basically every offseason. I do not see how that correlates to him being worse at clutch situations.
What's so hard to understand? Player B had 0.44(8) more attempts to score 8 more points. The most efficiently he could have scored on on those 0.44(8) is making 3 pointers, but player B was shooting free throws not 3 pointers, so he scored his points less efficiently. Giving him a lower true shooing percentage
To summarize so far， harden haters think: 1. De andre jordan is an elite offensive weapon based solely on his fg%. 2. When you take a shot and the opponent physically and illegally stops you from taking that shot then that should be counted as a shot. 3. An defensive elite like tony allen should be paid the same as an offensive elite like harden. 4. Harden plays zero defense. Every 2015-2016 defensive possession for the rockets is 4 against 5. They all have seen this multi episode highlight video of this. What else?
Yes. Everytime player A puts up a shot he scores 3 points. Everytime player B puts up a shot he scores either 2 or 3 points. Obviously player A was obviously more efficient at scoring points. Furthermore, assuming player B took 4 additional shots to get those 8 free throws, if player A took 4 aditional shots, based on this, you assume he produced 12 additonal points, as opposed to 8 for player B.
Both Hakeem and Garnett were better at defense than offense. Jordan was one of the best shooting guards ever. Same with Duncan and LeBron at their positions. You need to read my post carefully on the drew league. I didnt say the drew league is correlated with anything, I'm saying harden still looks out of shape.
And what's your point with your selection of the cream of the crop? You are still missing the point by a mile here. All the greats were great at offense. Who ever said anything about being better at defense than at offense. I said and I repeat, all the greats were GREAT at offense. Most of them were no where near great at defense. All the best players in the past decade, most of them are not anywhere near great at defense. You know what they were all great at? Again... OFFENSE. Defense keeps games close. Offense actually WINS games. We will have to disagree. I thought Harden looked to be in great shape.
Curious how does someone out of shape Lead the league in minutes Lead the league in getting to the ft line Be 2nd in scoring Lead in assists for non pgs 2Nd in rebounds for guards 4Th in blocks for guards Drive as much as lebron
Most all the greats were great at defense too, like I pointed out. I don't see how I missed your point. Russell wasn't great at offense. Garnett wasn't an offensive great. Or take top 30 greats like Ewing and Pippen. They were great on defense but not so much on offense. Maybe there are more examples of great who suck at defense (magic, Nash) but that doesn't mean offense is more important
He came in the season 30 pounds overweight like McHale said. It made him a step slower, more turnover prone, settled for more 3s, got to the rim less From the drew league videos he gained those pounds again or never lost them
What should be the factor then? In your example, player b will always look worse unless the factor is 0
He may be the same weight but his body fat % definitely looks lower than last year. A recent picture I posted in another thread he looked more ripped than I've ever seen him.
Yes he came into the season 'out of shape' - we also all know the reason why!! He had an injury and couldn't play basketball. This was also reported before training camp started, I believe it was then anyway. Just because he came into the season out of shape, doesn't mean that he was out of shape all season. As other posters have stated, he led the league in minutes, attacked the basket more than LeBron, etc...so it is safe to assume he wasn't out of shape all season. You can't do all that and be out of shape. Also, we found out at the end of the season, that Harden played on a bum ankle all year. As for the Drew League videos, I really don't know what you are seeing. It is only Drew League, if you will, but I haven't seen Harden dunk that much in a very long time. The guy clearly hasn't taken much of a break from basketball - there has been plenty of footage of him working out or playing in games. And even on days where we don't get to see any evidence of him working out - it doesn't mean that he isn't. Harden always looks big - doesn't mean he is out of shape.
And at the same time, there have been plenty of footage of him doing other things. you can't really draw a concrete conclusion its been nothing but basketball or working out for him just based on that.
- Completely false. Most of the greats were not great at D. They were good at it, but not great. - Not sure why you still keep mentioning Russell when we already agreed that he wasn't good at offense - Garnett wasn't great at offense? He was definitely great at it. You don't get over 20 ppg consistently by beating only good at offense. Same applies to Ewing. Both of those players can carry their team on offense and have carried their teams on offense. I will give you Pippen, though I don't believe he should be in the top 50 all time. - It absolutely does mean that offense is more important than defense. Teams will always value a great scorer over a great defender.
