I don't know why folks really want to sacrifice anything on this team and farm system for a playoff run this year? We don't H ave some window were we'll lose a player to age of contract yet. Maybe if the team was 1st in the division but this team doesn't need to think about this season, they need to think about next.
I don't understand how anyone can say that the Astros clearly aren't dedicated to winning it all after this deadline. Sure, they didn't make a splashy move. And sure, the Rangers made two big moves. But the same people who are complaining about not making a big move are the same ones who would be complaining in a few months about the success of the prospects we would've traded away. Luhnow is sticking to his plan and I can respect that. The Rangers just mortgaged 3 potential high quality major leaguers for instant success. And that's fine. It's two different organizations with two different approaches. I still believe in the Astros plan to build a long-term winner. Also, let's not forget that they made a huge and splashy move just a few weeks ago by signing Gurriel. Sure it wasn't at the deadline, but it was a big acquisition nonetheless.
Its really hard to judge Houston for not acquiring a starting pitcher, since no ToR guys got moved. The real nut punch is Lucroy. Luhnow should have prevented their division rival from trading for a star player that plays a position of need for both teams, especially given that the player comes with an additional year of control. The Rangers didn't even overpay;2 Top 100 prospects for multiple seasons of a good late inning releiver and the 2nd best catcher in the league is more than fair. Just going to be really hard to swallow watching the ****ing Rangers hoist a trophy led by 2 guys Houston really needed (Hamels and Lucroy).
Time will only tell. I know the big mantra is trying to emulate the Cardinals... But they always went after big names at the deadline in order to make their team better. From Scott Rolen, to Larry Walker, to Matt Holliday... They always understood that sometimes a top 100 prospect carries far more value as a trade chip than a future roster player. Can't even say they've traded away anybody they truly regret (Coco Crisp?), while they've also never bottomed out from a system standpoint thanks to always solid drafts, no matter where you are drafting.
Those trades happened in 2002, 2004 and 2009, respectively... The Cardinals haven't made a significant deal at the deadline in at least 7 years - and that includes these past five seasons in which they've won 1 WS, 2 pennants and been to the postseason every season. Lucroy was the only player dealt who both fit the profile the Astros have obviously cultivated - club-controlled beyond the end of the season - and filled an obvious need. I'm sure they kicked the tires on Beltran - and he would have been a nice addition - but how much is a pending 39-yo FA really worth? Besides, trade deadlines are arbitrary... well, deadlines. What were the Rangers doing this offseason when the Astros won the winter dealing for Ken Giles? Should we revisit the Giles thread and all the ecstatic enthusiasm? Fans were printing World Series tickets (and that's only a slight exaggeration). What did the Rangers add four weeks ago when the Astros signed Gurriel? This bull**** notion that acquisitions *only* count on August 1 is so remarkably silly. (That last bit wasn't directed at you, Nick, btw - just me venting about all the entitled, whiny babies who never seemed satisfied. So discouraging...)
There's a decent chance the Astros didn't trade for Lucroy because both teams feel they got sold a bill of goods on the Gomez trade. If the Astros get out of this homestand better off than they started it, there will be players traded in August who will likely cost more in money than prospects. The Larry Walker trade noted above occurred in August and not before the trade deadline.
1 key difference between the Cardinals over the last 10 years and the Astros now is that during that period St. Louis was in a pretty weak division. Until recently the Cubs and Pirates were perennial losers, and while the Brewers had some decent teams they we're never on par with the Cards. That's in contrast to Houstons situation, where they came into a division that has 1 team who can support a Top 5 payroll and has one of the best baseball players in history (Angels), another team that has a front office who pretty much rewrote the book on how talent is evaluated (As), another contender in win-now mode that isn't going away (Mariners), and an instate rival with a stacked farm, elite core, and more payroll capacity (Rangers). So even if Houston is able to duplicate what the Cardinals have done in terms of talent acquisition, they are unlikely to have equal success.
Also, I think the key difference in philosophy hinges on the Rangers' front office's belief in their scouting department and their payroll advantage. They are confident that they already have another Brinson and Ortiz and Tate down in the lower minors, so they don't see the peril in trading those players away. And they know that even if they don't have replacement prospects, they have the financial flexibility to recover via the free agent market. I don't think Luhnow has that faith. If he felt good that Ronnie Dawson was the next AJ Reed and Albert Abreu was the next Francis Martes, why not pull the trigger to add an established star to your big league roster? He also knows that Houston doesn't have the capacity to hand out multiple $100M deals to fill in gaps where your traded prospects were supposed to go. Finalky, i think there was probably a clubhouse chemistry aspect to their non-moves. I suspect Houston is counting the days until Gomez is gone.
I disagree with the notion of having comfort that lower level players will be the next crop of top prospects, etc. Even if he thought the world of Ronnie Dawson, I don't think it changes anything. As we are seeing now with Bregman and others, the MLB is a different game. Minors success doesn't necessarily translate and I think Lunhow views prospects similar to a strategy a portfolio manager uses to invest: diversification. While Apple is a great company, you don't see many smart people investing all their money in one stock. Instead, they spread it out among several other stocks with the belief some of the stocks will fall or remain relatively stable but due to the diversification they will hit on one. Think about guys like Altuve, Keuchel, etc. How would it feel to have traded one of those guys away for 3 months of a 39 year old Beltran? In summary, like it or not, Lunhow is going to continue to stockpile prospects because they are cheap and controllable.
Don't think the Rangers have a stacked farm system any more. May still be deep, but their top prospects are either traded, up in majors, injured with a long injury history, or can't hit a baseball regularly. On payroll, Rangers likely can have a higher total payroll, but their available capacity to spend more is likely a lot less than Astros at this point as they just have a lot of contracts on the books still.
Really, this again? Is this based on anything other than personal dislike of the man? I completely get that Gomez is a divisive player (with his swagger, and antics, and whatever you want to call it). But is there anything concrete about this? If so, please let me know, as I am ignorant to it. From what I've read, he was loved by his teammates in Milwaukee, and so far, his Astros' teammates seem to like him. I mean if there is something I am missing, then I'll totally get it, but if there is not, isn't it dangerous and unfair to throw these kind of personal accusations so loosely?
look i'm almost just as motivated in preventing the rangers from winning a title then i am in having the astros win one... the thought of a team from dallas (arlington) hoisting a world series trophy before my astros makes me go blind with rage. if you don't feel the same way then i question your houstoniness.
Well luckily you aren't our GM then. Luhnow could care less if the Rangers win one, especially if we win two or three like the Cards did in a short span of time thereafter.
doesn't change the fact that we could've easily matched the rangers offer for lucroy - a position of serious need for a club controlled player that would have helped us this year AND in the future. you sound like you're from the metroplex. closet rangers fan?
The Rangers farm system wasn't really deep before the trades. They did have some high end prospects though and a few middle of the rotation type players. They lost most of those higher end pieces this deadline. The two good young players they do have, are bubbling between AAA and the big leagues. The Rangers are setting up for a window of this season and next.
I hope their window passes them by. I live in DFW and it is insufferable when the Rangers are in the playoffs let alone a World Series. I have never rooted against a team so hard in my life. I don't even want them near a World Series again. Hopefully the deals they made aren't enough to get past the Indians, etc. It would tear me up. I know what Luhnow is doing and there was a line he wouldn't cross but it does hurt to see Lucroy AND a solid reliever go for 2 solid prospects producing mediocre numbers in AA. Granted both are still young.
Well, for one thing Gomez has played terribly and that obviously has an impact on what the team and front office thinks of the player. But yes, some of that is just my speculation based on watching tv and reading the Internet; I think it's a little overkill to label that "dangerous", since I'm just a turd on an Internet message board.
The Rangers still have 11 prospects graded 50 or better by MLB.com, and that doesn't include Profar, Odor, Mazara, DeShields, Gonzalez, Kela, who are all really young players on their big league roster.
How many prospects in BA mideseason Top 100? How many in KATOH or KATOH+ Top 100? My guess is 1 in BA and 1-2 in KATOHs.
