Well, that's why I like drafting an offensive system so people don't jump to conclusions like "will run iso ball"
I know, you were running flex with McGrady at the point. So he either shoots (ie isoball) or passes to some cross cutter or wide open three point shooter. If he plays the flex properly he lets someone set a pick, but there is no roll because the area by the basket has flexers all flexing up the painted area. Flex is the only thing he knows how to do which made him predictable for me. That and call off anyone that tries to set a pick. I watched 98% of the games he played as a Rocket. Trust me, I know how he plays. I loved the guy until he quit on us, so I knew every style he knew. VBG, I'm enjoying the discussion. I need to hit those links up now.
This is Gilmore blocking the unstoppable skyhook! <iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZXCHDcSHBS4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
VGB, just for some perspective so I'll understand where you're coming from, when did you start watching a lot of basketball? Like what year, how old were you? I say this because I'm 37 and I watched a lot of ball live when I was young. I lived in Chicago and saw Scottie and Jordan before they won a chip. I moved to Washington and watched the Bullets play from courtside (behind the basket) at least 20 times (got to see Zo as a rookie with Charlotte), then I moved south of Houston and saw the Rockets play and learned what a true center was. So, I fell in love with that position. The more I learned, the more I understood that Hakeem was the best at the position and so now I study all the great centers because I know the effect they have on championships. Today's game seems to be centered on guards, but historically I don't value them as much. I'm just curious if guard heavy play is your preference. That could easily explain our value on effectiveness of these players.
I started watching properly in 2000ish. T-Mac's 2002-03 season was actually what made me fall in love with basketball. So I think that probably explains some of the difference. I became more than a casual fan in probably 2009. That's when I got into advanced stats and the history of the game. So I do rely on things like the realgm top 100 to learn more about the history of the game. Manu Ginobili is probably the player on whom my opinion changed the most during my transition to a hardcore NBA nerd. I used to hate him and now he's one of my favorite players of all time. I do rate Shaq as the most dominant player of all time (peak slightly ahead of Jordan). Obviously, Jordan is the GOAT.
Bruhh. First, Webber would obviously be the PnR big. 2nd, did you watch some videos of him scoring? Really great touch and could score with a variety of moves, his hook was similar to Kareem's. Being strong doesn't mean you're a power player.
His hook in the NBA was much closer to the basket. He played pure bully ball in the NBA based on pretty much everything I could find. He didn't use all of his ABA type moves (probably had lost some of the quickness) Calling Shaq more dominant isn't saying Jordan was any less of a monster. Shaq was absolutely absurd. He made Mutombo look like a b****. Hell, look into his actual play against Hakeem in the Finals as a young guy. This is when he wasn't even at his peak. http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1242882
Thanks man, that helps. BTW, Hakeem dominated Shaq in the 95 finals. That's not the same as physically overpowering. And Shaq was pretty close to his prime that year. His defense slowly declined from the time he was a rook to retirement, so he was a better defender against Hakeem than he ever was as a Laker. His offense was close. Shaq finally learned how to pass and even got 10 assists in a game that year. During the regular season he had his 2nd highest scoring average (29.3 ppg in 95' 29.7 ppg in 00'). Saying he wasn't in his prime is an excuse. Head to head, Moses, Hakeem and my main man Bill Russell were the best centers of all time. They showed up and beat their counterparts time and time again. Shaq didn't spend much of his career playing any centers other than Yao and he didn't dominate Yao. Shaq, while being an awesome talent and an LSU legend (Geaux Tigers!), he was dominating weak competition and shrunk when truly challenged. Oh and just in case you geek out on matchups, this link is really cool: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi Pay attention, douche, I voted against myself. This equals > I ain't even mad about losing to you. Stop being such a douche. Just be cool.
My last picks: JMC vs don grahamleone I think Team Jmc has more talent. I'm not sure that Elvin Hayes fits well with how Fat and English played, a very unwilling ball mover from what I've seen. VBG vs. thething I liked the bench a bit more. Splitting hairs. LCA vs Tizzle I think it might be a bit more balanced defensively for this matchup. Better perimeter defense. Both are great teams and would probably belong in the other round.
I added new votes. Let me know if I missed any! FTW 3 vs Donatas 3 Horry 5 vs kevC 3 Fallen 0 vs Jamers 8 JMC 6 vs don grahamleone 0 Von Rafer LOL vs RedN Doesn't matter, Von ain't taking it. oelman 1 vs Jontro 3 VBG 1 vs thething 4 LCA 2 vs Tizzle 2
I saw a few games of Artis Gilmore. In the NBA, he seemed to score around the basket, around the restricted area. Nice touch near the basket. I saw an old ABA Pacers game too vs. Gilmore, but I might've caught the worst Gilmore's game in the ABA. The Pacers' center blocked several of his near the rim attempts (this man http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillmda01.html). His longer shots mostly weren't going in. He might've had a Kareem like hook, but I wonder if it was a key weapon and if he could make it consistently from range. He also was much leaner in the ABA. I think he was someone who knew his limitations very well in the NBA, and he added a lot of bulk and strength and moved closer to the basket.
Maybe I'll explain later if I get the chance. Maybe not FTW Horry33 Jamers JMC Wafer Jontro VBG Yung-T vs LCA- can't choose. Put them both in the next round. Spoiler
I appreciate the fact that the brehs don't want to see either of the og brehs to go, but sometimes a deed must be done
I don't know anything about a few of the players on Yung-T's team so I'd need to research a little. I'll have some time early tomorrow, so if we're still on this round, I'll vote for that matchup then.
Sorry not much active over the weekends but here are my remaining votes. VBG Jontro LCA (4-3 with every game going to overtime and the Truth nailing the final dagger) Will probably explain tomorrow at some point during work when I usually have more time than on weekends.
I just flat out disagree with that. 95 finals was more about the Rockets role players + Clyde than Hakeem. Hakeem was still Hakeem but at least from watching it I didn't think him vs Shaq was anything close to domination. 1. I disagree about the defense part. Shaq's defense got better positionally. Rookies (not named Tim Duncan) suck defensively. Even KAT and Anthony Davis were awful. 2. Saying he wasn't in his prime isn't an excuse? I don't know what the sentence means. Shaq was better when he was in LA. He didn't put up the same PPG because of a very different system. Completely disagree. Have you watched the 2000-2002 playoffs? He destroyed everyone and everything. There was literally nothing you could do but foul him.
