Kawhi maybe a better overall talent but Harden is more valuable because he can run a team. That's why Harden is unquestioned top 5.
I really don't get this type of questions. I mean it's like yall try yall darnest to dispute what other players done. Harden missed a lot of wide open shots and so did his teammates. Harden also want to dribble the Air Canada out of the ball and then either hoisting up a contested shot or passing so his teammates could hoist up a bad contested shot. I remember McHale and even JBB telling these dudes," we need ball movement and player movement". But the hero want to be the hero . Pretty strange nobody wants to address that Elephant in the mix.
im not sure this reasoning is really valid to be unquestioned top 5 like you said. you say Harden can run a team but what exactly has he accomplished being the guy a team builds around. And I'm looking at both individual and team success here which is the main standard on how I personally judge a player. Hes had 3 first round exits in 4 years. While people question KL on some things still, the same can be done with JH (defense, regression this past year both individually and team, empty stats, etc.). If an unquestioned top 5 to you just means having the team be a playoff team and not a true contender then i guess it does check your boxes here
Plus the NBA is changing. Movement and playing off the ball are more valued. ISO is becoming less so.
Prob because your eyes are telling you something that's not backed up by actually fact. Harden was either 2nd or 3rd in the entire NBA in creating open looks for his teammates the problem is they only converted at like the 22nd best rate in the league. If the team shoots 10th best in the league on open looks theta at least 5-8 extra wins which is still not 50 wins but it's good enough to secure the 5th seed by a pretty decent gap from Portland.
This doesn't happen without good coaching, though, or at least good movement doesn't happen without it.
that and this also isn't something players work on these days as much especially the footwork needed imo
That seems like a difficult stat to track properly. For instance, let's say that Iggy is dribbling the ball at the top of the key. Curry sets a screen for Draymond Green at the 3pt line, and Green cuts to the basket. Both defenders stay with Curry, and Iggy lobs the ball to Green for the layup. According to your metric, who gets credited with creating that open look?
I also said they missed a lot of open shots too. But we had more iso ball than ball movement and player movement. And since your were looking and paying attention, how many times did you hear McHale complaining about stickiness and ball movement and player movement? People wants to complain about coaching but won't hold players accountable for not doing what the coach instructed them to do.
Harden is in the 90th percentile in catch and shoot. Harden is in the 96th percentile in spot ups. The question isn't his ability in that aspect... It's his situation and personnel.
Complaining about stickiness doesn't create a system of player movement... It definitely doesn't improve the ability of the personnel to do so either. It is valid reasoning.... All that you just said and you're forgetting the disparity in coaching and personnel.
I can't completely agree there. sure these play a factor but at the end of the day when a team is built around you as a player and the results don't follow as maybe as well as they should, Im not one of those that completely shifts blame away from them because I do hold those individuals accountable. I've consistently done the same thing for guys like Love, Melo, Cousins etc.. Ive made it known none of those guys are as good as many seem to think as far as impact on winning.
if you're personnel isn't particularity good at movement or refuses to do so its no wonder complaining arises. There's really not much else to do especially if you preach it or practice it but no one listens or executes when it counts
Apples and oranges.... There is a measure of success and stark contrast. Those guys are not superstars.... They're not close to as good as Harden and are not nearly as impactful.... Harden has never missed the playoffs in his career.... Love never won more than 40 games as the guy... Never made the offs... Boogie never won 30 games in his career and is th most overrated star in the league. Harden has had seasons superior to any in Melo's career whose missed the playoffs consecutive years.... IN THE EAST. We can also go into specific of what he's elite @ in comparison as I've done. The reasoning is valid because the comparison is also valid.
It's not simply "movement".... You need ball movement and players that can move the ball... You know... Playmakers... Quality passers.... It doesn't simply happen otherwise.... And once again... Harden was the SOLE legit ball handler, playmaker, and shot creator on the team.
a lot of the very same reasons I echo overall but as far as Harden he still needs some additions to his resume/career as well as team success to be this unquestioned top 5 player imo. Those players were merely used as examples of reasoning just to clarify, not meant to compare them as players to JH. I definitely dont think any of them are as good as JH.
Try and keep up... You do realize he was specifically talking about jumpers and perimeter shots right? Not layups and dunks although he definitely is assisted on a lot of those too.... So I have no idea why you're mentioning his total FGA. Also spot ups don't account for all catch and shoots which is why I mentioned them separately.
