I agree. I think Westbrook has a 'tighter' handle on the ball, but that doesn't mean it's better. He seems to pound the rock more, but Hardens crossovers and craftiness with the ball are way better. Agree about finishing too, Westbrook is not an elite finisher around the rim and Harden is. The stats back this up
There is no question Harden has been better than Westbrook, Davis & Leonard. AD led the Pels to one play-off but that team was worse than the Rockets last season by a lot. The Westbrook led Thunder were really bad and could t make the play-offs 2 seasons ago. He has a lot to prove. Leonard has yet to prove he can be the leader of a team. He's damn good but how would he perform as the one player responsible for dragging a team into the play-offs? Nobody knows. Until those players prove they can effectively drag a team into the playoffs year after year they are not worthy of being compared to James Harden.
That's b/c they had injuries to key players (Gordon/Evans). In fact, Gordon/Evans were their two highest paid players last year. This is a terrible argument for two reasons. Firstly, Kevin Durant was injured. It's not fair to compare a team missing ~25% of its salary cap with a relatively healthy Rockets team. Secondly, despite missing the playoffs, Westbrook led that Thunder team to 45 wins. This season, Harden led the Rockets to the playoffs with only 41 wins. If Westbrook has a to prove, so does Harden. If anything, Leonard has proven himself more of a leader than Harden. Every season, Leonard has added something to his game while Harden regressed this past season. Leonard has shown a willingness to commit to the defensive side of the game and become an elite defender. And most importantly, Leonard hasn't feuded with his co-stars.
Hard believ Westbrook isnt a playmaker when the guys got how many triple doubles, 17-20 this past season. And its not he all were 10pts, 10 reb, 10ast. And the Westbrook led team missed the playoffs, but still had more wins than this past seasons Rockets. They had cap space they couldnt use sitting on the bench in a suit and boot. Warriors/Thunder who does Westbrook guard? Warriors/Rockets who does Harden guard?
The year KD was hurt he still played 27 games and put up a very efficient 25 ppg. Westbrooks record without KD that year was 25-23, not great but prob would have been about were the rockets ended up this year, which is a low playoff seed and in the 41-43 win range. Secondly 2 years ago the rockets were also missing there highest paid player for 50% of the season. In those 41 games a harden led team with Tarik black/Joey Dorsey receiving minutes to go with unproven at the time dmo and at the time a just been cut josh smith with cannan at point to a 28-13 record. The sample size is roughly the same and Harden led his team to a top 3 seed the whole time. The Leonard thing is a who knows if you like him more than Harden that's your opinion but the tools he's added are tools James is still better than him at. Harden is still better at literally everything on the offensive side of the ball besides maybe 3 pointers, but harden is also in the 90% in catch and shoot threes which is a majority of the threes Leonard takes. Leonard is much better Defensively, no question about it but if you watched the playoffs this year when he was asked to create from himself and others he was absolutely horrid. If been saying it for a while he's not a true number one option but when you play on the Spurs he's more than good enough to be the best player on that type of team. If you asked him to do the things harden Lebron even Westbrook are asked to do imo he would be a 44/35 shooter and the team would struggle to win 40 games. He's a fantastic compliment to a guy like harden or Westbrook tho.
The year he was runner up for MVP, players MVP and 1st team all NBA he was a zero on defense. Might have been his best year on defense as a Rocket, but it still wasn't anything to be super proud of, yet still overall he was regarded as a top 5 guy. Super biased guy over and out.
Sorry, but Harden does play defense, he just has lapses. This "truth" that Harden never plays defense and is the "worst in the league" is a garbage narrative by idiots. Harden is a slightly below average defender. He is closer to middle of the pack than he is the bottom.
He's not considered top 5 outside of Rockets fans for the most part. Saying he's better than Kawhi is pretty laughable, objectively. But it's normal for fans. And many remember Harden from 2 years ago, who could be top 5, if he comes back.
You still can't and shouldn't be a top 5 player with average/middle of the pack defense. Top 5 players have to be above average in offense AND defense.
you actually need elite offense. above average offense simply won't cut it. were Nash and Dirk Top 5 players at some time?
I am sorry but your arbitrary characteristics of what a top five player has to be is not logically sound due to it disqualifying any other potential candidates for the top five slots. Curry, Durant, Westbrook are all average or middle of the pack defenders and do not meet your criteria. Even in the past, Nash, Dirk, Barkley, were less than average defensively and were MVPs.
This is just stupid... I suppose by your standards that Barkley, Dirk, Nash, and Durant (just off the top of my head) has never been top 5 players? Those are just the ones off the top of my head. Above average offense and defense is just your personal standard, which IMO is complete garbage. You know whats more important than above average offense and defense? It's called ELITE offense and that's what Harden has. You don't win games by defending. You win games by scoring more points. Defense makes things easier, but at the end of the day, whoever scores more points wins.
From what you are saying, we should just automatically crown the top 5 offensive players as the top 5 players. Correct? Then there should never be any debate on who the top 5 is according to your definition.
Durant actually had a barely above average defense last year (an achievement for him) if we are going just by DBPM stat, though that's actually the 2nd highest he ever achieved. He is typically consistently near zero or negative. His defensive rating per 100 possession is marginally better than Harden's as well. The same can be said about his DWS. Another thing to consider about the Rockets however, is that the ENTIRE team was garbage defensively, suggesting that this was more coaching than the players.
I mean...if you want to get literal about it like that then that's silly. Use of context/supporting cast/coaching/roles are very obviously important things to factor in.
