Religion is the worst evolutionary trait in human history

You are correct as far as what much of the churches teach today, but not wholly correct according to the bible and what Jesus actually said.

The idea that you talk about in the bible is there. But there are other ideas in the bible of how to get to heaven as well. Jesus and the bible give several different ways to make it to heaven. Jesus tells the robber on the cross next to him who asked to God, that Jesus won't need to tell him because that Robber will be there. The robber wasn't going to make it simply for believing and repenting. He was going to make it because asked to be remembered. In one book in the New Testament it says women will make it by childbirth. Jesus tells his followers that if they forgive others they will make it. Jesus points out others that will be saved through faith, or plenty of different examples of people who will make it by giving away their riches.

But as for your assertion that you could torture babies and then find Christianity and repent and you would be saved, even according to those that believe that is the requirement for being sent to heaven, it would only be true if the repentance and belief were sincere. If they were, then there would be no further danger from you of torturing and killing babies or anyone else again, so that would be a good thing. It doesn't work as an excuse that you can do bad things because you know that according to religion, you can say "sorry" and have no consequences. That isn't really the concept.

 

Yet another part that has been cherry picked. Again, under what criteria do you select what to follow or not follow from the Bible? I said "I'm sorry" mockingly. I know what repentance is.

 

Well, toxic to who? And why would it be toxic? Large majority of the world population is religious. Large majority of the US is religious. To me, as a whole, they aren't toxic. Me, living in peace without harm from the majority of them is proof they aren't toxic. In fact, most of them are loving, caring, and very nice folks. I know some put up a shell to show that - but ok, at least they try.

Toxic to self - sure, very much, but that's my own opinion.

 

What about family unity? Such as a family member leaving a religion in a religious household and is shunned by the family. Happens all the time all around the globe. Toxic

What about all those families that send their children to 'pray away the gay' camps that are notorious for high suicide rates and wrecking the mental wellness of those children? Toxic

What about the apostates living in constant fear of being found out in a country that makes apostasy a capital offense? Toxic

What about all those suicide bombers that ONLY RELIGION can create because of the afterlife reward that follows that kills thousands of people? Toxic

What about those who insist that their understanding science should be taught in the public classroom because of their fairy tail book from thousands of years ago? Toxic

Should I go on?

Congrats on not being negatively affected by religion. Though the last time I checked, there are an additional 7+ billion people on this planet who might have different experiences.

 

I agree that hate has been passed down by some. At the same time there are people who aren't racist even though their grandparents or great grandparents were racist. So change has happened as well.

The South is not the only area where racism still exists and has always existed either. Look up the draft riots and the burning of the Colored Orphan Society in NY in 1863. The riots that took place during the civil rights movement in places like Detroit, and Watts were on par if not worse than anything that happened in the South.

 

The problem is... I wouldn't know how many, but I have seen quite a few.. people do not understand this sincere concept or they are told but don't take it seriously. Many immoral acts (lying, cheating, revenge, jealousy, harm others verbally, ...) repeated constantly while attending church weekly and confessing and asking for forgiveness quite often.

 

I spent 20 days in jail for a DUI in Kentucky. The ONLY books they had available to read were spiritual. I'm sure there are plenty of rapists, murderers, thieves that do find God in prison. When that's the only thing you have to occupy your time for years at a time, I'm sure many criminals find God in prison and truly repent for what they've done. Yet somehow they're getting to heaven, yet I'm going to hell for questioning his existence. Wouldn't my sin be God's fault for giving me a brain with the ability to reason?

 

You should not. If you only focus on the negative, it's a very long endless list.

Thanks. I do feel grateful much for not being negatively affected by religious folks, or on the average, more positively affected.

 

You aren't going to hell if you are not believing it. So, what's the big deal if something think otherwise ?

 

The idea of cherry picking isn't really cherry picking. It's a matter of greater study, and increased understanding. When things seem to contradict in the bible, and they often are, it's always safe to choose the one that's more loving.

But that's simplistic. We don't really have the time, space or interest here to go over it. But another simplistic way to look at it, though (I believe) slightly more accurate, is to look at is a progression. If the stories, tales, parables in the bible moved people forward from point a to point b, that was a good thing but it was never the end goal. The end goal would always be point z.

What happens is that people look to point b and hold it up as if that's what the bible is advocating.

A perfect example is the "eye for eye" verse that is often quoted and used to justify vengeance. It was already being done in the time of Jesus.

But an "eye for an eye" was actually used to reduce and limit violence. At the time it was written, if a neighbor stole a couple of head of cattle, then folks would often go next door, kill the guilty party and enslave their family. An "eye for eye" was a step forward in limiting the punishment that could doled out for various situations. It lists many of them in that part of the bible.

But an "eye for eye" wasn't supposed to be the ideal or perfect way. It was at the time and improvement and reduction in violence and suffering. It was a movement from point a to point b. It was never intended to be the final destination. Just reading the words, it's easy to understand, but actually looking a little deeper into the context helps provide better insight and understanding into the intent.

 

Oh I absolutely agree. But nobody can force someone to be sincere. It's on them if they misuse the idea and think they are getting away with it. They obviously weren't sincere in asking for forgiveness. The real way to know that someone is sorry is when they don't do it again.

 

Do you not understand that people believing that those who don't believe the same as they deserve eternal damnation just fuels the fire towards hatred of the 'other'?

If God hates them enough to burn in hell forever and he is this benevolent loving god, why should I not hate him?

 

THe world isn't that perfect. Especially if their immoral action was a result of a mental illness. Sometimes they can be genuinely sorry and slip up afterwards.

 

Yes, mental illness changes the whole equation. They can truly be sorry and do the same thing again. The same thing goes for addiction. Those aren't just matters of conscience, though. It goes deeper than that.

 

FWIW, I attended Friday prayer at a mosque in college sometimes, and one of the first 'sermons' they I heard was on this topic. If you listened to it, you would have thought they were talking about Christianity, but they weren't...they were referring to other Muslims. He called it hypocrisy (ie, thinking that just going to church/mosque/prayer, while practicing none of what was taught, somehow made you a good person). I bring this up because it is a universal problem, not specific to any religion. Jesus felt the same way, fwiw. WWJD can be a fairly universal construct, and the answer is certainly not 'go to church frequently, pretend to be pious, but act otherwise throughout the week.'

 

I'm not a practicing religious person and tend to stay out of these type discussions, but 12 years of Catholic schooling taught me that "faith without works is dead."

There may be some religious adherents who ascribe to your theory that faith alone "saves you" but there are many who would not agree.

 

Not according to my belief in the bible. But to many's belief you surely would. If I thought was what Christianity was, I wouldn't want to be a part of it either.

But in the only prayer that Christ told his disciples to say, he wasn't worried about getting to heaven. He was more concerned with what people do in this life on the earth. His idea was to let it be done on earth as it is heaven. That's where Jesus told people to focus, not some after-life.

 

Because hating feels really horrible and I have nothing to gain from it? Worse, I think it can lead (of course dependent on duration and severity) to negative emotions and can cause mental and health issues for me.