This post doesn't reflect the reality of what happened after the attack at all. You had the head of Muslim organizations in Florida, not only helping the police, but actually even participating in the briefings and press conferences. They were giving aid to the law enforcement going far beyond the call of duty to help the investigation in Orlando.
There is certainly lots of things to pin on Christianity, but I don't believe most people are actually familiar with the Crusades in a historical context. The area was primarily Christian, invaded and taken by Islam, and then attempted to be retaken by the Christians (with more depth of course). That period of time was full of religious zealots of both faiths, and there wasn't a real separation of religion and state....... which is part of why the problems that exist are so concerning.
You can secularize almost any faith and it doesn't become a problem... be it Christianity, Islam or Judaism. The problem is that from a historical perspective and a faith perspective, it is very difficult to secularize Islam.
It's a bit strange that you think I'm absolutely correct, than you said I'm in complete denial about something (less about religion and more about culture?) that I didn't talk about in that post. I assumed that means you read some of my older posts and disagree with them and of course, I don't know which ones you are thinking of. You might not have seen some of my postings on these matters in past years. I made similar arguments that this is more about culture (& government, education,...) than religion, but religion play an intrinsic part. Since we agree on those points, I'm not going to repeat them. But to response to some of your other points... I'm not quite sure what you mean by "their world is engulfed in flames and they have no problem watching the rest of the world burn". The ME region has much violence, but I don't think that means they (meaning the general folks there) have no problem watching the rest of the world burn. They may not care about the world "burning" as they have more pressing issues (running away from violence for example). But they aren't actively wishing that the world burn - that type of altitude belong to a few, where their intention might be revenge, politic or just lashing out. Yes, there are plenty of issues with those backward views as compare to more "modern" society. ME region is still backward in comparison. Other region such as SE Asian also have some of these and other backward views, where some probably were not originated from religious source - e.g. women as 2nd class probably was a common view before religion and is still very much a world wide issue to various degrees among regions. These backwards views are still quite common and it will take some time for these regions to "catch" up. This is why I'm upbeat about communication technology where it allows the people of those regions to more easily see how other lives and with that perspective, start to change their own views. And because of how easy it is for other to now see the world, I think it's important that we, and especially our leaders, set examples as modern society for others to follow by acting in the best way we could and avoid acting in ways that isn't accurate or turn people away (such as a general Islam is horrible) and thus likely slowing down the rate of progressive change. I would love to see faster change, but I think we probably will do more damages if we try to force that rate of change. I think by letting the people see it for themselves, change within personally, culturally and eventually politically, it would be more lasting. I'm not exactly sure how to accomplish that but I pretty sure that alienating them will slow progress. That going to war is also likely not the right path as it hurt so much of those people and we are often blame for it. I also think that restricting their freedom of religion (and this apply to all religion) is counter productive. They have to "grow up" on their own accord and I would let them be and try to set a good example for them to follow... But of course, there is a line. For me, I'm not ok when mass violence, especially to outside the region, occur. I'm fine with have your crazy ideas and beliefs, but don't act on it in a way that cause violence toward us, because once you do, we will have to step in and stop you even if that could impact our lives negatively. Therefore, I have been supportive of drone strikes, of expanded security checks and of "spying" the US public for terrorists detection. I believe ISIS and these nut groups are on the decline so I wouldn't change course too much... and that I hope the recent attacks are their and their supporter last grasp at power and influence.. but if it is on the rise, I probably would rethink whether we should again go to war to stop them.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">40+ dead, 230+ injured in Istanbul attack, but airport reopened Wednesday. <a href="https://twitter.com/RichardEngel">@RichardEngel</a> reports from Istanbul. <a href="https://t.co/nvUOk8wiKJ">pic.twitter.com/nvUOk8wiKJ</a></p>— NBC Nightly News (@NBCNightlyNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/748283070122340353">June 29, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
txtony, according to the Qu'ran there are no guarantees you will go to "heaven" unless you die in Jihad. The people who do the terrorist acts probably do so just to get to Muslim "heaven"(not the same as Christian or Jewish Heaven).. Since they are not following the "good" teachings of the religion, they feel their only option to get to heaven is to die in Jihad. They are following the true aspects of the 'religion" which commands Muslims to kill infidels which are anyone who is not a Muslim. I believe the terrorist in Orlando was in a similar situation. He probably had some homosexual desires and felt he could never make to to Muslim "heaven" with those desires without dieing in Jihad. it is all there in black in white if anyone cares to read it. I did not enjoy reading it but did feel compelled because I could not understand how anyone could kill for their "religion". Yes, I am a religious person. I am a Christian. I believe in redemption by the sacrifice of my Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. He died in my place to atone for my sins and anyone who chooses to believe in him.
lol, that you let me get to you like that. Liberals are funny. Thanks for letting me dominate your thoughts.
Why are Christians so political these days? Jesus was not political at all. This is a serious question.
Man I wish I could find this one gem from a while ago where what he said was right "because god said so" :grin:. Our very own religious zealot .
SirCharles, I won't get into the D&D discussion with you as its pointless, last 7 pages of this threads proves it. I don't quite remember saying Hart might be better than Neuer. I probably said that it was not worth the upgrade from Hart to Neuer as the marginal improvement from one to the other is negated by the price you would have to pay. I think anyone who knows anything about football would agree, but then again based on your D&D outlook on things I doubt you have the ability to look past your biases. The smartest people are those that can look at both sides of the coin, this lot in the D&D....well I don't think I need to even say it. cml750 btw, wow you are my hero, everything you say is pure gold. Your post on Jihad is priceless, you need to keep sharing this knowledge with the D&D. Heil cml750!
And there in lies the inherent problem with Islam that even Chris Bosh cannot deny. Muhammad explicitly wanted worldwide Islamic rule. He wanted the government and religion to be one.
I'm quite sure the vast majority of of Muslim people don't follow your understanding, otherwise, it should logically follow that the more religious they are, they more they are likely to "die in Jihad" (dying while killing infidels). We know that's not to be the case and we know the vast majority of so call Jihadi violence are against Muslim. If you want to understand Jihad, don't just depend on your interpretation. Ask a Muslim. Ask Muslim scholars. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1023_031023_jihad.html Read up that.
It's not as if radical Christians in the US have committed suicide bombings and mass shootings on a weekly basis with the expressed goal of destroying the modern nation state as we know it.
