The Whiteside mention is interesting to me. We all know the DD's of this world wanted to burn Morey at the stake for not taking him in the draft years ago, but its obvious now that despite his measurements & athletic natural talent... whatever team was going to draft him, wasn't going to get a "playable" Whiteside early enough in his career to make an investment on him as a draft pick. Enter a similar opportunity with a Qi who unlike Whiteside, could be stashed overseas for a couple years. Even if he takes as long as Whiteside did to develop (I'm only talking on the court issues), the Rockets have a unique benefit of holding him overseas rather than having to make a swift two year make or break decision like they would have had to with Whiteside. Could be a brilliant pick, but we won't know for about 5 years. However if Les steps in and forces the front office to pull him in too quick, it could be that we are going to watch another team benefit from our loss later on. Gotta have the stomach to wait for guys like this I guess, and don't draft them from the NCAA.
I wonder if QI will burn one of his years by insisting he come over at the END of this next season when the CBA is over? DD
Given his contract it seems like next year is the year or else he's going to get signed for decent money in the CBA or Europe and become another Llull. So the Rockets have to do their due diligence. However the Whiteside comparison just really hits home here. One year overseas might be too early, and the Rockets could be bringing him over only for another team to reap the benefits years later if he works out. If he's not ready they really need to resist the temptation to bring him over early.
Then hold onto him, DEVELOP him and when he is ready play him. You have 15 spots, they all don't have to be ready to play. DD
Lol... c'mon DD, even you know where this leads, especially with you of all people offering opinions. Your opinions, over the years, would have the Rockets as one of teh worst teams in the league for the last decade. And that's not a dig.. that's just based on your record of who you like/don't like as players. But to take the focus off you for a second, the masses though JJ Watt was a horrible pick, and wanted to draft Harold "baby jordan" Minor. Well, its confusing to me, because that's not what the term generally means when referring to sports teams. It means, as per its definition, the emotional relationship and psychological interaction. But whatever, define it as basketball fit if you want. It doesn't change the fact that the basketball FIT... has actually been fine. It's the "chemistry" that was the issue this year. Not DM's fault necessarily. But there was nothing wrong with the fit. Again, there have been plenty worse fits that have worked our VERY well... and plenty of great fits that haven't led to anything. Pointing to the fit is generally in relation to Lawson... who sucked, regardless of fit. He sucked at ALL TIMES last year, with all combination of players, and on both teams he played on. What seems to work well usually, regardless of chemistry or fit... is having freaking great great players on your team... which seems to be something you're not for. Or, put a different way, what alternative route were you suggesting either before they happened or even now in retrospect, that would have focused more on "fit" and would have led to a better team??? FINALLY... have hit on the problem. This view of the problem... I think... is actually the problem. It's sad that its the problem, but it is. The Rockets have an organizational culture perception problem. It's not what they're doing... it's HOW they are going about publicizing what they are doing. Daryl has actually gotten a lot better at this, but it has been much of too little too late, because as he's gotten better at it, he's also been undermined by his owner who has refused to let the team do anything other than have a .500 record or better every year and insists on hiring old, white, has-been coaches. But definitely, there is ABSOLUTELY a perception problem. Even though they aren't actually doing anything other great organizations have done. GSW, Spurs, Thunder, Cavs, Heat, Mavs, Lakers, Celtics... I'm just thinking through teams that have won or been near the top in the last decade+... these are all teams that have made HUGE HUGE HUGE personnel changes, and in multiple offseasons. It's not that I don't like your position. It's that your position doesn't mesh with reality. The reality is Les is the owner. That isn't changing anytime soon. That means the team needs to compete every year, and will likely never have a coach that makes 100% sense. Happy to discuss the alternative strategy in an alternative universe where Les doesn't own the team, but that's kind of a useless hypothetical. in our world, here's what I'd rather complain about: - The organization needs to be less "flippant" in how they discuss their business. More professional in a way. Stop talking about analytics, unless its to reframe people's view of it - since the Rockets as the leader of analytics has been taken completely out of context, especially when every other team uses it as extensively as we do. Etc. - DM has to be a better drafter. And that's coming from a guy - me - that actually thinks he's done a decent job here. But in the NBA, as in all sports, its incredibly hard to be a champion, and in the NBA more than other sports, drafting is SUPER important. You can't miss Kwahi to draft Leonard. They took PPat when Eric Bledsoe was still on the board. This is nitpicking to an extent, as he has a lot of draft pick surprises. But he swung and missed on the biggest one (Kwahi). ... and that's basically it, given the ownership mandates. There are particular moves to nitpick.. IN HINDSIGHT. Dwight being #1. Wrong guy, wrong character, and wrong type of player in today's NBA. But they did make the WCF one year. Losing this year's #1 pick for a guy that completely sucked. Etc. ---- The interesting thing, DD, is that this year, you aren't hearing anything at all on the Rockets plans. And guess what... people are complaining about that. Want them to talk less? Success!! They've done it! Wait, that's not good either??
That's not how NBA contracts work DD. The players associate negotiates to get contracts that disallow for teams to farm them like you are saying they should. The teams have 3 years essentially on a rookie contract to either hand the keys to the car over to, or allow to walk. This is the players doing in order to both ensure playing time, or have the ability to walk. Sacramento made the decision after only two years to cut bait with Whiteside instead of giving him another year to develop and stay with his rookie contract with team options. The Rockets... had they taken Whiteside, probably would have held onto Whiteside for another year, but given what we know about him (how he continued to NOT beat out the likes of Vernon Macklin, etc. even in the D-League, and getting cut from teams in Europe), he almost surely wouldn't have made a breakthrough in year through anyways, and the Rockets would have been forced to let him go one way or another. Love or hate Whiteside, there is significant evidence that three years guaranteed as a high upside raw rookie big wasn't enough. The league would have had to have had a 6 year rookie exception contract for him to have worked out. Thats the facts DD. (and no it wouldn't have been different with the Rockets as you like to say. You scold the Rockets for not developing but at the same time have said "it would have been different if". Can't be both ways). This is a cautionary tale for players like Qi, and I like the approach of stashing these guys. If one of them turns out to be a Whiteside years later, you are sitting on a gold mine. If the Rockets had international rights to Whiteside and he sat out the first three seasons after drafted (2010 through 2013), his second season with the Rockets as a 2nd year player would have been the season with Miami where he burst on the scene.
Arguing with a stump. There is a reason he is approaching 100,000 posts. He posts and argues on every thread until you give in to his way of thinking or you finally tire of arguing and give up. Either way, you lose. Remember in grade school, " I'm rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on you"? In this argument, you are the glue and the more you fire his direction, the more babbling BS is going to be bouncing back in your direction!!
Yeah, we should all just agree with each other about opinions, what a great idea. We don't have to agree, and I have been here a LONG LONG time thus the number of posts, no need to get jelly. DD
Maori never said FT shooting by bigs is NOT important, he just said defense and rebounding are MORE important. The problem with most fans watching a game is that great defense is sometimes not as glaringly apparent as missed free-throws after a hack. My guess is that Murray has a database full of data proving that in the majority of cases, a big who sucks at FTs but can play great defense and rebound like a crazy man will win you more games than one who's at as good at those but hits his FTs. DeAndre Jordan is the living embodiment of that. Only the totally clueless would argue that his bad FTs cost the Clips more than the other parts of his game produce. <BR>
We were better without Parsons. When we added Ariza, we got to the wcf. Parsons is a first round Virgin Ariza has a ring
Not sure what I feel towards someone who has averaged almost 16 posts per day for 17 years. That is a post per hour for every moment you were awake for 17 years. This doesn't include your aliases you've had over the years or when you were banned from the board so God only knows what your real numbers are. I would have to type non-stop for 5 years straight just to get into your ballgame. I can tell you with no doubt whatsoever Jealousy would never remotely enter into play!! As far as opinions, you are the Hilary Clinton of opinions. You change your stance so often you can't remember what you're last stance was and then you argue against yourself from months or even years ago. Either way you argue until the bitter end you were right. Either way, everyone else is always wrong no matter what they say unless they agree with you. You remind me of DonkeyMagic in that regard. Was that one of your aliases?
See this is stupid, and a terrible opening and 100% factually incorrect. Most of the arguments have been about fringe players that I think should get a shot. There are misses, for sure - but there are hits as well....and many are personal preferences - rather than right or wrong, but people seem to want to paint their own narrative on it. VSpan is a great example, all I ever wanted was for him to get a shot to find out if he COULD be the answer because Rafer sucked, but the narrative is that I think he was a star, pure utter bull****. Well to me it means chemistry ON the court. Really, what was wrong with Marcus Thornton? Why was he released? Why have we gotten rid of players that FIT the 3 and D mentality because we don't want to pay the going rate? Scola, Parsons, Patterson, Dragic, Lowry......?????????????????? Are you HIGH? I am VERY much for having great players - I am fine with taking a shot, even if the chances are low, but I am also for finding ROLE players who fit, and PAYING THEM IF NECESSARY...hello Parsons, hello DMo, hello Brooks, hello Scola.... No matter how you wordsmith it they do have a cultural problem. And it is a REAL problem one that no amount of Ostrich in the sandness will solve, until they figure out exactly what they want, they will continue to kick the can and hope for the best. I don't understand people that put all the blame on Le$ - clearly I hate Le$ Alexander as an owner, he is a cheapskate, and I like Morey - and I do think he is growing as a GM and has not gotten absolute authority, but I also recall Morey firing Adelman or essentially running him out by forcing Finch onto his staff - so let's not sugarcoat this because you like guys who have calculators in their pockets. I put the majority of the blame there, but also on Morey, if Morey had the guts like Adelman did and D'Antoni was forced upon him then he should have resigned, instead he clearly agrees with Le$ and no talking out the side of his mouth praising Le$ for a good choice is going to make intelligent people believe it is all on Le$. Here we agree. Also agree, remember when drafting 14 they said Patterson was 6th on their board, that means they SUCK at creating a board. I never liked Dwight said it when we got him, knew this would happen, but accepted that they had to take a shot and hope for the best. It didn't work, as predicted. Because Free agency has not started - you watch, they will not get any tier 1 star players, and maybe not any tier 2 ones either. There is a problem around the league in how the Rockets and MOREY in particular are viewed, players don't want to play for Captain Asset when they know he will talk out both sides of his mouth and trade them - whenever he gets a chance. BTW Jay - we don't agree on opinions about this stuff, but I do appreciate the discussion - but how we read the tea leaves is completely different and I guarantee you feel you are right about Morey - and I respect that. I just look at it with different lenses than you. DD
You mean those same Clips that have never gotten to a WCF ever? You don't think if he could shoot FTs at say 60% that might have made the difference? DD
Not if he was a crappy rebounder or a poor defender. It's obvious that given everything else equal, you take the big who can also hit free throws. Morey would agree on that point, so it's not even worth considering. The real question we're asking is: Is good free-throw shooting enough to offset deficiencies in other areas of the game? You can argue all you want, but the fact is that NBA history is littered with great centers who couldn't hit their FTs, so many of the greatest coaches of all time disagree with you. Coach DaDakota: "Sorry, Shaq, but those missed free throws are killing us. I have no choice but to start Wang Zhizhi tonight because they won't hack him." <BR>
Yeah, I'm to going to respond point by point, and am never coming at you or anything. You put yourself out there, and I respect that. You value high bball IQ players, ball movement, SKILL... all things i value. You seem to overvalue that as compared to things like athleticism and overall impact on the game... hence the seeming infatuation with role players rather than stars. but you put yourself out there, which is more than many. And of course sometimes you are right... just like you are often wrong I just think its folly to say or imply this is a bad GM, and foolish to question why he hasn't fallen on his sword. And I think its extreme folly to say its because of the "process" of "chasing stars"... as that's basically the only way to win in the NBA... having stars. The problem is in the perception and culture of the organization, in part created by DM. I don't blame Les for everything mind you, but certainly, in organizations led ultimately by a single leader, culture absolutely trickles down from the top. As far as free agents signing this year or not... we'll see. I'm not optimistic. But I'm also not willing to use that as evidence of "see... it's not working". Just 3 years ago the biggest FA did sign with the team. Just 2 years ago we were very high on lists and had indeed basically got Chris Bosh in our lap until the last minute. And just 1 year ago, in an effort for continuity, there seemed to be offseason moves that made complete sense. More than anything I point to Dwight... the Dwight decision. It's not ALL on Dwight, but that as a decision point for this Rockets era. He wasn't what we hoped, he was the wrong fit and wrong kind of guy for the new era NBA, and he stunk so bad in his final year, he couldn't even be moved for a single asset. That's not to say he was a horrible player, but is to say he stunk mentally, as a teammate, as a guy who was going to insist on opting out to cash a huge paycheck, as increasingly discontent, as passive aggressive, etc. If I think about the alternative, which would have been an admittedly more DD-like continuation Harden plus really solid role players, and if I hypothesize a world where Chandler Parsons doesn't get as injured, and the Rockets add a couple of other pieces... well they might not have had a WCF run, but they could have certainly had a second round run or two, and be stocked with various "assets" at this point that would be helpful. Of course, DM would have to be his typical "horse-trader" self to take advantage of that now!!
There are exceptions of course, and if DeAndre was Shaq then great, but he isn't. I do prefer guys with skill - and think you should at least be able to hit 60% of your FTs. DD
To me IMO this means they are looking into old contracts that were considered as bad that are now consider potentially good contracts now and that Houston will be active in the trade market. Sorry to be somewhat the bearer of bad news but for example a Ricky Rubio is a high possibility to the Rockets. If you were to trade Beverly and Brewer/Ariza. With Brewer/ Ariza going to the Timber Wolves and Beverley going to the Sixers that trade will allow you to get Noel and Rubio. Is Rubio better that Mike Conley no, but is that a smarter trade than spend 23 to 26 million on Mike Conley that's more debatable. You'll still have money for Durant and another talented front court player maybe a Marvin Williams or Ryan Anderson and may still have a small amount of money to spare. While it's not desired my belief is that the Rockets go this route to rebuild. The cap goes up next yr and you could potentially add a Tyson Chandler to this team and you could still do so if you trade the other of Brewer/Ariza with a KJ Mc Daniels for TC this offseason. At 12 to 13 million not that bad of a deal. IMO accumulation of overall talent is the route the Rockets will go especially after Durant formally tells Houston to move on. The other thing this does depending on KD's next season this makes Houston a more suitable team for him to really look at with more talent by salary numbers alone more tradable contracts.
Smart post. Seems likely. Especially when you consider Westbrook, Griffin, CP3, Hayward, Lowry, Millsap, Teague, Ibaka and others will be free agents next offseason (or are scheduled to be, mid-season agreements notwithstanding). And DM would be more than happy to make the most of it this year while positioning himself for next year. Frustrating.
Wholeheartedly agree about Les & Morey. This has been my chief complaint about DM from the start - that he's another version of Carroll Dawson who also cycled through reams of players with little to show for his efforts. Now the difference between the two is that DM is much better at talent evaluation than was CD but that's about it. Neither GM has been able to significantly improve the Rockets in terms of being a legitimate championship contender and given what's just occurred with the hiring of MDA (and all that entails), I'm not expecting this to change anytime soon. My conservative guess is that in two years, we'll still have made little to no progress but since it's now 20 years since their last championship, I must admit that I've become accustomed to this situation.
