That hilarious. What if we don't have any extremists at our mosques? Should we turn in a sacrificial lamb just to show people like you we are doing our job as Americans? What if I told you the mosque I go to preaches tolerance for all religions, faith and people. That it actually encourages allegiance to this country and protection of people and culture as one of our most important duties.
Individuals who just started getting religious? The Orlando shooter went to the Mosque several times a week, there were numerous people that knew him that claimed he actually was religious and he group up in a conservative religious household... Not to mention he himself claimed a desire to have an Islamic State. What do you expect his family to say? "Yes it is how we raised him"... Are 1.6 billion Muslims supporters of terrorism? Of course not, but a large number of Muslims believe homosexuality should be punished, that infidels should be punished and a number of other horribly intolerant values. Islam is clashing with a western view of the world and mainstream secularism. Islam will have to become more secular in vast areas of the world to stop much of the conflict. That is a tough road. Speak to my Arab wife about the wonders of Islam in the Middle East and you will have a different view.
I sort of agree with you. I can begin to understand the frustrations of some people with Islam. But what does blaming Islam accomplish anyways? That's really not going to solve anything. What is the long term solution? It's not like Islam, the religion, can be just wiped off.
Lol, Lou, you have never read the teachings of the religion of "peace". Why should I educate you. Are you incapable of reading it yourself or just in denial? In another thread you were talking about the enlightenment of the religion. Look, there are many good Muslims in the world. They follow the good parts of the religion and ignore the rest. People try to label the jihadist as extremist but if you actually read the teachings they are actually just following what is written. Are you so lazy that you want me to do your research for you?
So long as the Aloha Snackbar crew is allowed to exist anywhere in the world, they'll do things like this. I mean, it's just what they do.
Wow you are relentless, I am quite enjoying this now, amusing how keep repeating the same thing, keep posting your deeply scholarly knowledge. You may want to say that I have not read the Koouran one more time, I still have not understood.
Why don't you cite an example and let one of the Muslim posters here attempt a response and/or defense? I'm interested to see where that would lead.
I think it varies. For some it's a validation of Christianity and the superiority of western thinking and values. It's simply human nature to want to separate into groups and put down others. For some, I think it's fear based - these attacks create fear and anxiety - which is what they are meant to do, and people struggle to explain how people can do such things. Ultimately it's easier to explain it as a book is the cause and gives people something to blame. Once people believe something it's very hard to shift opinion. The truth is that all of these extremist groups all over the world actually can trace their roots back to either the Muslim Brotherhood or Wahhabism both of which are modern movements within Islam. That should be telling but it's something that gets ignored by those trying to paint a broader picture.
I have read more of the Bible than any other religious text (despite not being a Christian) and have found many sections that encourage violence. So why should pointing to a few lines in one text damn one religion but not another? Read my post above and you will see my position. If you disagree explain why. Explain how Islam didn't have terrorism until the 20th century if terrorism is inherent in the religion.
I am not pissed at all Muslims. Are there people that are? Yes, realistically there are. What can good people that are Muslims do? Realistically not much other than be vocal against the violence and intolerance and recognize it exists. Also understand why people are mad and realize that while not all Muslims are bad people, not everyone critical of how the religion is manifested wants to send people to camps or deport them. Ultimately I believe the faith will be more smoothly integrated in the West, it will take it becoming more secular. I will add being rude or disrespectful to Muslims or endorsing candidates like Donald Trump isn't going to make the problem any better. There is a poster on these boards that joined the marine corp and has fought for secularism in public and faith in private. Also having a dialogue is important. I appreciate your post and I have wondered how I would feel if I were born Muslim and lived in the West. There has to be a sense of "but I am not doing this, don't judge me!"... and I can understand that feeling.... Just dialogue, and not PC but honest dialogue helps... Because since 9-11 there has been a growing divide that needs to be repaired. My wife is Arab, and I see her struggle with loving her culture in someways and in other ways concluding some of the culture is simply wrong in the 21st century. She can criticize it, but still is defensive at time because it is part of who she is.
at what point can you say this religion is a deathly disgrace to the World? I meant **** guys. There is something like this every month.
If that were the case the discrimination against Muslims would have been strong long before recent conflicts. The West historically hasn't needed a reason to discriminate against other groups of people. Besides, most the bigots already had their hands full with blacks, Mexicans and gays. The issue is far more complicated than either extreme cares to admit.
Stand up and protest against the people in your religion that think blowing people up is actually a good thing? Im totally on your side, and think Muslims are/can be great people. But dude.... If Christians in today's time were monthly blowing people up, and crediting Jesus Christ for it...... Yes our religion would step up and rebel. Educate me please ?
That is what most reasonable people ultimately do. It isn't ever stated this way, but society and modern culture prevails while religion is kept in a little box and trotted out when socially acceptable. Christianity has been largely neutered and Islam largely hasn't and needs to be.
I don't want this to come across as any sort of personal attack, because peaceful muslims like yourself are certainly just as victimized as anyone (maybe even more so) by these animals. Nevertheless, the honest answer to the question of "What is to be done to stop the Radicalization of Islam?" can only truly be answered by the majority of peaceful Muslims that are unjustly caught up in this. You say rightfully, "What would you have people like me do exactly?" I would respond this way. ANYTHING, someone like yourself can do as a member of the religion of Islam will mean 10x as much as someone like myself can do as an outsider. Only an internal reformation of the religion to bring it more into step with modern civilization can fix this. And it's going to take a long time. The good news is there ARE moderate, peaceful muslims like yourself standing up and condemning this hijacking. Continue to add your voice to theirs, live your life, and educate those who are ignorant/scared of your religion of the things about it that are beautiful and inspiring. That's probably just about all that one person like yourself CAN do. I wish you well my friend.
I think that was a nice, thoughtful post. Question: Do you think insisting that the blame lies with Islam itself rather than radicals who follow a perverted interpretation of Islam is productive in addressing these problems?
Telling the truth and discussing the problem honestly is more productive than virtue signalling by saying it might have been Greece.
I think that is a good question and the answer is nuanced. Does having someone like Trump blasting it is "Islam" help, as if it is a race? Absolutely not. However it also needs to be recognized that more Muslims hold beliefs such as having an Islam state, persecution of gays, punishment of infidels, etc. than people want to recognize and that isn't helpful either. How much of it is religion and how much of it is culture? It is hard to differentiate because the religion is so pervasive. What I have an issue with is that critics of Islam view it as a static situation and I don't think that is true at all. For example I know several people born into the faith of Islam. Most are second or third generation. They are less "religious" than Southern Baptists in Texas and there is no real conflict between their faith (or lack there of) and the modern world.
