Book Reader info: Spoiler The prophecy she receives from the witch includes her death at the hands (quite literally) of the valonqar (little brother). So pretty sure GRRM plans for Tyrion to kill her. The show left that part out, plus the fortune of the girl that was in there with her.
Tommen is a goner by prophecy. We all know that. It's just a matter of when and by who. Joffrey died in season 4, Myrcella season 5. Tommen has a strong chance of dying this season.
Two scenarios: 1) Cersei uses wildfire to torch the trial but didn't think Tommen would be there 2) Cersei unleashes death on the faith and Margaery dies in the process, sweet little Tommen can't handle it and kills himself, crushing Cersei. Edit: I'm kind of hoping for a Godfather type scene at the baptism where Cersei dispatches people to kill all of her enemies at once.
Some thoughts on the most recent episode.. I do have a problem with Sansa not telling Jon about Baelish, all the way back to when Brienne was still with her, and she even called her out on it, so the producers also know very well that Sansa's motivation there is questionable. The problem is, neither the writing nor the actress are doing anything to make her reasons for her decision clear - if they THINK they have made it clear, they haven't. So there are different conclusions one can draw: 1. Sansa didn't trust Jon with the information because after Ramsey, she doesn't trust ANYONE, not even Jon. 2. Sansa believed for some unknown reason that if she told anyone about Baelish's offer, and her subsequent request to him for help, that it would ultimately cause them to lose. 3. Sansa was told not to tell anyone, probably by Baelish himself. 4. Sansa was embarrassed and humiliated at having to even CONSIDER asking Baelish for help, especially since she likely hated him almost as much as she hated Ramsey, for delivering her into the Boltons' hands. 5. Sansa was just really dumb, and not thinking well. 6. Or, Sansa was really really smart, and thinking many moves ahead. There are probably other possibilities as well, but the problem I have is, the show is just not giving us what we need in order to better *understand* what her motivation was. Fortunately for everyone, events turned out well in the end. And for everyone screaming about how 'Jon got so many men killed'.. back up a second. Jon was leading a force against a better-equipped army twice their size, entrenched and fortified in an extremely defensible castle, one which was being led by as devious and clever an opponent as anyone could face. Did any of you think there was any realistic scenario in which almost all of Jon's forces were NOT going to die? This was going to be a massive kill-zone of death, and everyone knew it. The ONLY shred of hope was in causing Ramsey to lose HIS cool and charge into trap, and that was just not going to happen. So we know the Knights of the Vale showed up at the end of the battle and saved the day. Everyone knew that was going to happen, I think. The only question was exactly how it would transpire. I am glad it went that way, even if predictable, rather than the Braveheart way, with Jon's forces being sooo clever and outsmarting superior forces.. to me, THAT would have been more predictable than the way it happened. However. We see the Vale's forces swarm in on armored mounts and decimate Ramsey's forces in the field.. AFTER Ramsey committed them into play. We never really see just how large the Vale's forces were - it looked pretty big, but was it 3,000 big? Would the Vale's forces have been enough to help Jon's side win if they had simply been present from the beginning? And HAD the Vale been present before the battle, and the odds been more 'even', would Ramsey have even come out to play at all? Absolutely not. He would have turtled inside Winterfell, and it would have turned into a siege. And there was not a siege weapon in sight (other than the lone giant), and they did not have the numbers or the supplies to mount one anyway. No, had they waited for the Vale's forces, they almost certainly would have either lost or been forced into a stalemate. Now there is no doubt Jon would have WANTED the Vale there at the beginning, but the victory they won, while it came at a high cost, actually probably cost far less in lives and resources than if the Vale had been there from the beginning. So then, the question is, was this just dumb luck? I doubt it. To me this smells like Littlefinger from the beginning. Either he told Sansa not to tell Jon about his offer, or, when she wrote him, he responded, and learned that no one knew they were coming, he probably made her swear not to tell, because he knew that surprise was their biggest path to victory. Hopefully we will hear exactly why these events transpired the way they did, and that it wasn't simply dumb luck. Now, onward.. Jon was in a no-win situation, and as soon as he saw Rickon being sent out into the middle of the battlefield, he knew what Ramsey was up to, but he also knew that he MIGHT still be able to save his little brother. Given that information, and who Rickon was, and what he represented, saving him was crucial, and if there was even a tiny chance, he had to take it without hesitation. So, just sitting there and watching Rickon be killed without doing anything, that would never have flown, it would have been so out of character for Jon and for the show itself, never would have happened. And yes, Jon realized he had jumped straight into Ramsey's trap, you could see it on his face, and he realized then just how right Sansa had been. And after that, as the producers said, he simply got extremely lucky in battle. And chasing Ramsey back into the castle was very satisfying, much moreso than a 'one on one' battle would have been. Ramsey was a coward, like most sadists and bullies, and even his own father mocked him for it. So having Ramsey go down like the little POS he was, like a useless coward, was fitting. And the way they handled the reveal of where he actually ended up was well done, because neither Ramsey nor the audience knew until we saw the dogs begin to creep out of their pens. And that was the first time we got to see real fear on his face, because he knew, better than anyone, what they would do to him. If I had to choose between Sansa calmly telling him his entire house and history were about to be erased, and then watching him be devoured by his own dogs... or, having Ghost suddenly appear and CGI-him to death.. I prefer the dogs, to be honest. It was much more appropriate and much more of a dagger straight into Ramsey, being devoured by animals he was sure were loyal. Onward.. No, Jon has no desire for the Iron Throne.. YET. Because he doesn't know who he is. If it turns out as everyone expects, he will be, far from being a b*stard, as high-born as it gets. He would have THE most legitimate claim to the throne, even more so than Dany. Give him THAT news, yeah, he will want the throne all right, if for no other reason than to keep it out of the hands of anyone else he wouldn't trust, especially the Lannisters. Hmm.. Has everyone simply forgotten that it was Olenna who killed Joffrey, and not Tyrion? Surely this series isn't going to end without Cersei discovering that somehow. Sansa knows, or has figured it out by now surely. And really, it wasn't just the Queen of Thorns, but Baelish as well, mostly likely it was his plan to begin with. In any case, when I hear Cersei listening for 'rumors' from a near-paedophilic priest-like person, I am not NECESSARILY assuming she is talking about wildfire.. what with her trial coming up soon, and no more hope of having Zombie Mountain doing her dirty work there.. I am almost hoping it will be something she can use against the High Sparrow before the trial, such as he likes to 'lie with little boys' or something like that. That would definitely get her off the hook. And it would certainly be a surprise over the 'she wants to blow everything up' idea. I'm probably wrong though, but it's nice to hope anyway. I still think the Tullys show up with that rebel force, trailing along behind Brienne - not that it will do a lot of good at this point, other than to cement Sansa as rightful Sovreign in Winterfell. There are an awful lot of loose ends left, with only one episode remaining in the season.. Arya, Bran, Sam & Ghilly.. Cersei's trial, Loras, White Walkers, Wildlings, Euron, Dany getting moving over the ocean.. Davos and his rage against the Red Woman.. I think she bites it this week honestly. And what about the Hound now? Where is HE headed? Castle Black? Jaimie and the Freys? Varys? TYRION? Are they seriously going to address all of these ends in one more episode this year? And I don't mean concluding them, I just mean even TOUCHING them.. Geez. Hurry up Sunday night!
I didn't read all of this, but in regards to Sansa I feel like you're overthinking it. The very obvious answer is #1. She told Jon "no one can protect anyone", in other words she doesn't trust him to protect her, nor anyone else.
I'm with a lot of you here... definitely think Tommen is a goner. Really hoping the Sparrow storyline gets killed as well and for that High Sparrow is gone. Since everyone is talking about it, I'll list my top picks without spoilers this time. 1. Tommen 2. Loras 3. High Sparrow 4. Margaery 5. Pycelle A lot of these deaths will be caused directly or indirectly by Cersei... she about to go cray cray.
Yeah. But I mean I wonder if she's accepted it to the point where she herself might do something that leads to Tommen's death, since she thinks it will happen regardless.
I don't think it's so much about keeping the posers out. Jon's focus is on fighting the White Walkers. He wanted Winterfell so he could unite the North to fight them. He's not worried about the Iron Throne because it's a needless distraction. But, if he has a credible path to use the Iron Throne to unite the entire Seven Kingdoms to fight the White Walkers, he'd do that. Nah, I don't think so. The important thing is the enmity between her and Tyrion. Agreed. I don't see how they can address all the storylines in one episode, much less close them out. I bet some are just left for next season (Arya, Hound, Euron). Funny, I thought it was #4. But, maybe the 2 aren't too different. She's mad at Littlefinger in the beginning of the season for marrying her off. She refuses his help. Then, she consents out of desperation to save herself. She doesn't want Jon to know she made a deal with the devil because she is ashamed of indebting herself and Jon to him. Jon would have objected and she didn't want to compromise her own plan of saving herself (which ironically depends on Littlefinger). So I think #1 and #4 come together to explain the motivation.
So if Tommen dies, who inherits the throne? In Westeros are women in the line of succession? A Lannister/Tyrrell civil war could be a boon for Sansa or Daenerys.
- I think there is a good chance that Tommen dies at the hands of Margery - Cersie goes crazy after Tommens death and burns down the Red Keep with wild fire Here is my logic: End of Season 2 when Danny rescues her dragons she gets a vision of what looks like the Throne Room in the Red Keep that has been burned and snow falling through the ceiling and covering the floor. <iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7voZB6Ki7m8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> From season 5 episode 1 her is Cersie being told that she will have 3 children with a golden crown and a shroud of cold. This foretells that they will all be Lannister's and they will all die. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_6kQJ9HPpQ4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Here is Bran's vision from earlier which shows the Wild Fire spreading through the pyromancer's quarters in the Red Keep. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/P52IlcZyHuw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> This is from earlier this season where Cersie tells Jamie about the prophecy of their dead children <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TXBTbDiaCew" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
You're on the right path but I think it'll be Cersei killing a bunch of people first with wildfire... but first you gotta put a bunch of people in one room. Hmm, isn't there supposed to a trial coming up! Coincidence? I think not. Tommen's fate will be tied to this event directly or indirectly.
Spoiler Melara's death Melara will fall down a well, on the same night. The prophecy came true. Melara: Will I marry Jaime? Maggy: Not Jaime, nor any other man, Worms will have your maidenhead. Your death is here tonight, little one. Can you smell her breath? She is very close. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Maggy
There's too many storylines that need to be wrapped or updated for Gendry to appear this season. "Catelyn" won't return. Stannis got killed offscreen so he's still alive in my eyes. Ms. Tarth keeping something in her back pocket? Stannis will forever be the Mannis, he atleast needs an awesome death. The show and the book don't have to match...
That ain't snow. That's ashes. When I saw that (and recently again when I re-watched all that season to refresh my memory), I assumed it was caused by a Dragon attack. I think most people believe that. Even in light of you juxtaposing it next to other visions, I still think that it is a vision of Dragon destruction, and Dany taking her throne, but realizing she had to destroy it to get it, and now it's an empty, hollow chamber with no fanfare surrounding her reclamation...and no people who love her anymore. She got what she wanted, but is alone in a burned-down throne room being rained on by ashes -- something Dragons probably like. The scene is symbolic of "Be careful what you wish for."
