1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Change of Fortune: NBA stars who would've won more or less titles on different teams

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by plutoblue11, Jun 15, 2016.

Tags:
Page 1 of 2
  1. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,526
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    Change of Fortune:Which NBA Stars or Hall of Famers do you think would've won more (or less) titles on a different team?

    There have been on-going arguments,especially in NFL and NBA threads about which players have benefited the most from their supporting cast or being surrounded by other star players. They seem to come up alot with Steph Curry and LeBron James. Even in the NFL, people always seems to make the argument against players (even non-QBs) who haven't won titles, as reason of why they shouldn't be inducted into the Hall of Fame (see Tim Brown, Andre Reed, Andre Johnson-likely)


    In my opinion,

    1)This is what got me into this thread, initially. I do feel like a roster move, here and there can change the fortune of an entire team's outlook. I feel like as much as I disliked him a player - Karl Malone would've won a few titles, if he were paired with another superstar, like say Magic Johnson. I feel like if Magic, somehow ended up on the Jazz. He would've won a one or two more titles. While, I think Stockton pulls a handful of rings, if he were drafted by the Lakers (sans Magic Johnson). Stockton paired with Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, and Scott in the same Showtime offense (also adding Stockton's great defense and shooting ability)...still overwhelms the West and puts up the same legendary battles against Boston and Philly. I can't see the Lakers winning less than 3 rings with Stockton, instead of Magic.

    2) I feel like the Rockets had piss-poor management for most of Olajuwon's career, especially when it came to trades, drafts, and free agent signings. I feel like on most other NBA teams that Dream would've won, at least 3-4 titles. I'm looking at teams, like the Nuggets; the Hawks; the Bucks; and the Celtics (in the 90s)...these teams had some pretty above average rosters and talented young players, but no superstars (except Atlanta). I always felt like he had the bare minimum in Houston for most of his career. It's weird, he was never really surrounded by other great players (only at the beginning and end of his career).

    3) I think if the Mavericks drafted Barkley in 1984, they would've won at least one title between 1987-1994 or competed for one.

    4) I feel like Kobe Bryant (and Tim Duncan to lesser extent) would only have about 2-3 titles, if both played for lesser teams. I just feel like LA and SA can boost anyone's career. In Kobe's case, I feel like Shaq was the type of player who could win wherever he went. He could carry a bad team into very respectable playoff seed and average team into a title contender.
     
    #1 plutoblue11, Jun 15, 2016
  2. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    35,194
    Likes Received:
    24,222
    Every star needs a good team to win titles. That's why ring-counting is the most overrated method for measuring a player's greatness.
     
    #2 Easy, Jun 15, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  3. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,564
    Likes Received:
    56,281
    Jabbar never would have won more than his first ring with Oscar had it not been for Magic reviving his career at age 32. I'll go so far to say that you could give LA anyone else in the 1979 draft, and he still never takes the Lakers to a championship.

    76ers and Celtics would have traded the ring back and forth all through the '80s.
     
    #3 heypartner, Jun 15, 2016
  4. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,526
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    It still annoys me to this day to hear that someone argue that Olajuwon is not a top 5 center, because he didn't win as many rings as the other guys. But skill-wise and overall talent, he's the greatest. None of the other centers really had the same versatility as Olajuwon, I'm not dissing them by any stretch of the imagination.

    But, Olajuwon was a great post-player, as he was a great shooter. He was agile and quick enough to guard forwards, while being able to protect the rim and guard other bigs, optimally.

    I think Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, and others are the greatest we'll ever see, but I recently watched a few games from the 94 and 95 playoffs. The other don't stick out as much as he does in regards to the overall game.
     
    #4 plutoblue11, Jun 15, 2016
  5. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,526
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    I agree.

    I think the Celtics become the team that everyone tries to catch up, too. Without Magic, the Celtics championship total, likely goes to five. With Magic being on lesser team, I think Bird becomes arguably the greatest player ever, until the rise of the other "MJ."

    Also, the East wins 15 consecutive titles until the Rockets beat the Knicks in the 1994 NBA Finals.

    No one from the the West is beating Boston, Philly, or Detroit in a 7 game series, unless Magic ends up with another superstar (or set of superstar) -- a team, like the Suns, Trailblazers, Rockets, or Jazz.
     
    #5 plutoblue11, Jun 15, 2016
  6. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    62,564
    Likes Received:
    56,281
    Actually, I should correct myself. Magic likely wins no matter where he goes. My main point is Jabbar never wins a ring with the Lakers. He had already proven he couldn't for 4 yrs prior, in his prime.

    The talk he had with Joey in Airplane wasn't really a joke.
     
    #6 heypartner, Jun 15, 2016
  7. Jturbofuel

    Jturbofuel Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    5,233
    Likes Received:
    3,710
    Hakeem would have more titles if Sampson and the drug trifecta didn't implode a good young team early in his career.

    We had a young core of
    Hakeem
    Ralph
    McCray
    Lloyd
    Wiggins
    Peterson
    and established rotation/starters like
    Lucas
    Reid

    That was a solid rotation and they were one of the few teams that could run with the Lakers and had the inside game to play power vs the Celtics and Sixers of that era. It was only a matter of time till they won a title if things hadn't imploded.
     
    #7 Jturbofuel, Jun 16, 2016
  8. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    25,412
    Likes Received:
    13,285
    You can also talk about the Thunder screwing up by going with Ibaka and Kendrick Perkins.

    Over having a core of Westbrook, Durant, and Harden.
     
    #8 peleincubus, Jun 16, 2016
  9. Caesar

    Caesar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2014
    Messages:
    6,230
    Likes Received:
    6,247
    Wilt, Hakeem, Garnett, Webber, TMAC. Guys like Barkley, Malone, Stockton screwed for playing during MJ's reign.
     
    #9 Caesar, Jun 16, 2016
  10. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    48,449
    Likes Received:
    51,889
    Ewing wins one,

    Mavs don't if they keep Tractor

    Webber and the Kings win one if it isn't for Lakers and the refs

    Does MJ win multiple rings if Phil isn't there?

    Malone and Stockton win a couple

    West gets more than one title instead of being 1-8 in the Finals
     
    #10 zeeshan2, Jun 16, 2016
  11. hakeemthagreat

    hakeemthagreat Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    6,127
    Likes Received:
    4,103
    Lebron James. He needed 2 other superstars to carry him when the moment was too big. He's a great all around player, but his career path would've TOTALLY different had he played in the Western conference
     
    #11 hakeemthagreat, Jun 16, 2016
  12. Caesar

    Caesar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2014
    Messages:
    6,230
    Likes Received:
    6,247
    I don't know. Let's say the Cavs draft Melo coming off leading Syracuse to a national championship game. Let's say the Nuggets end up with LeBron James. There were some good players there. I think LeBron still would have been to the Finals at least 3 times with Camby, Kenyon, Iverson or Billups, JR Smith, Dre Miller, etc, etc. Probably would have stolen one from the Lakers when they beat the Nuggets in the WCF and then beat Dwight's Magic.

    Though he sure as hell wouldn't have 6 straight appearances and 7 total.
     
    #12 Caesar, Jun 16, 2016
  13. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    48,449
    Likes Received:
    51,889
    What if Jordan ended up on the Rockets? There was an offer with Sampson included in that Hakeem draft for the 3rd overall pick if I am not mistaken
     
    #13 zeeshan2, Jun 16, 2016
  14. LCAhmed

    LCAhmed Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    11,034
    Likes Received:
    1,631
    Feel like they did this on NBA 2k16.
     
    #14 LCAhmed, Jun 16, 2016
  15. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    27,724
    Likes Received:
    21,397
    Durant would 3 peat if he joins Jim harden this off season. Or else he will forever be the bridesmaid
     
    #15 FTW Rockets FTW, Jun 16, 2016
  16. tmac2k8

    tmac2k8 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,211
    Likes Received:
    263
    Name another Star Player who won an NBA championship with no other all stars on his team? This is actually a serious question, I don't know off the top of my head. But this is a solid argument for dream being the greatest if the others always had an all star caliber player with them.
     
    #16 tmac2k8, Jun 16, 2016
  17. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    27,724
    Likes Received:
    21,397
    Do you mean no other all stars that specific year when they won the title or no other players who have made an all star game?
     
    #17 FTW Rockets FTW, Jun 16, 2016
  18. scolandry1

    scolandry1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,879
    Likes Received:
    3,576
    Rick Barry, Elvin Hayes, Hakeem, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, and Dirk.
     
    #18 scolandry1, Jun 16, 2016
  19. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    27,724
    Likes Received:
    21,397
    Add Jordan 1998 to that list and 2014 Tony Parker if you're going by that.
     
    #19 FTW Rockets FTW, Jun 16, 2016
  20. scolandry1

    scolandry1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,879
    Likes Received:
    3,576
    I missed Parker, but I didn't include Jordan because Pippen was all-nba third team that year ('98). Looking at both all-nba teams and all-star teams makes more sense.
     
    #20 scolandry1, Jun 16, 2016
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2

Share This Page

Toggle Width
Style
ClutchFans Original

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Rockets Content

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now