Florida Night Club Shooting - at least 20 dead - impact on US elections?

This was going to be one of my comments. Putting in a law that says if you're under investigation you can't buy a weapon, kind of leaves a lot of interpretation and a lot of leeway by the government to decide when and why to investigate people.

I understand the point of it, but I just think there will be pretty staunch push back.

Also - the guy was investigated in 2013 and 2014, right? So nothing happened for 2 years? Did they stop investigating? If so, is that because they believed he wasn't a threat? He only recently bought the weapons, so if you get investigated and its determined you're not a threat, are you still banned for life?

I'd support universal background checks, but then again you kind of leave it open to the government to say whether or not you're OK to own a gun.

 

Like you. You can read dozens of posts on this thread, including those with people respectfully disagreeing with each other, and then you get to this douchebag's comments and the intellectual level immediately sinks.

You added less than zero of substance here, as you often do. Weak. If you can't add anything, how about stepping out of the conversation and letting the adults converse with each other?

(and cue the inevitable "I own your thoughts..." type of bull**** response we're going to get- he's so predictable it's laughable. BigTexx is a pathetically sophomoric poster if nothing else. Weak, weak, weak. Nothing of substance).

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WATCH: <a href="https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton">@HillaryClinton</a> on how we need to respond to the Orlando tragedy. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OrlandoUnited?src=hash">#OrlandoUnited</a><a href="https://t.co/SP8q5tEFfn">https://t.co/SP8q5tEFfn</a></p>&mdash; Correct The Record (@CorrectRecord) <a href="https://twitter.com/CorrectRecord/status/742413025169149952">June 13, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">UPDATE: More names released of those killed in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Orlando?src=hash">#Orlando</a> massacre: <a href="https://t.co/BEwnO6eqgE">https://t.co/BEwnO6eqgE</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OrlandoUnited?src=hash">#OrlandoUnited</a> #PulseShootings#FL</p>&mdash; CBS4 Miami (@CBSMiami) <a href="https://twitter.com/CBSMiami/status/742414439358431234">June 13, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

I was agreeing with Nook's comment.

You need to stabilize yourself. You're unhinged after your weekend melt down. Take a couple deep breaths and gather yourself.

 

Mass shooting motives are usually one or a combination of three things: either Islam, or a complete wackjob (Dark Knight shooter, Tucson shooter), or what Ace refers to as Failed Men:

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/359298.php

In this case, Mateen seems motivated mostly by Islam, but he also might have a little Failed Man in him.

 

Obama: ‘We’ are to blame, not Islamic terrorism, for massacre

Not sure if this was posted here

 

I agree about a little bit of both, but in the opposite direction. He has a history of violence and prone to angry/psychotic episodes. Think the radical Islamic thing was just used to justify his killings. It really can go both ways though.To me, it just seemed 60/40 in favor of him being a lunatic rather than doing this in the name of religion.

 

From all reports, this was essentially a hate crime that got elevated to terrorism because the guy voiced support for ISIS during the 911 call he made to the police during the assault. This nut was able to buy these weapons legally and even if there was a ban on assault weapons, there are so many guns floating around that he wouldn't have faced much of a problem getting ahold of one illegally. But I feel that it's sheer lunacy to allow unrestricted access to military grade weaponry such as AR-15s, large capacity magazines and teflon tipped bullets - especially since we allow anyone and everyone to get their hands on this stuff no matter what their mental state of being. After all, the mentally unhinged also have second amendment rights that must be protected no matter how many innocents die.

But according to his ex-wife and others, the shooter had serious mental issues and had freely expressed hatred and bigotry for women, black & hispanic people and homosexuals. His choosing to attack this gay club speaks to this being more of a hate crime than terrorism IMO. Of course the FBI has to perform due diligence and investigate any possible link to terrorism but I think the terrorist angle is being overplayed here. But that's the narrative that generates maximum effect for the folks at Fox News, CNN and MSNBC. If he had REALLY wanted to commit a maximum exposure terrorist act, he could have easily attacked one of the tourist venues like Wet n Wild, Downtown Disney, Universal Studios or Sea World. As to the topic at hand, this incident will fade into footnote status once the next mass shooting occurs.

 

We also have no idea how much more violence would occur in Australia, Germany, the UK, or Japan without their gun bans. That is my point. Comparing the US to other countries with different firearm laws and saying "Look, look, gun control works!" is no more valid than comparing the US to Mexico and saying it doesn't.

What was Australia's murder rate prior to their gun control legislation? What was it afterward? How did any changes compare to changes in non-gun crimes over the same period? Would it come as a surprise to you if the homicide trend line in Australia was not substantially changed in 1997 (in other words homicides were going down before the ban, and continued going down after the ban at roughly the same rate)? Australia might not be as great an example as you think/hope.

I'm sorry. That isn't what anecdote means. There are a number of definitions, none of which fit what you are referring to.

You might want to talk to your left wing buddies. They are the ones saying that state gun laws don't matter, but national gun laws do.

3.5 deaths per 100,000 people is not absurdly high for anything. It is less than a fourth of the people that die by drug overdose. Should we ramp up drug prohibition? You don't even have a constitutional right to ingest narcotics.

I know, that is why I said that your charts included suicides and thus should not be used as evidence for a gun control debate (unless you are specifically arguing that reduction of suicide is your goal, but that would be odd in a thread about a mass shooting incident).

Homicide rates in Canada started declining a couple of years prior to their gun control legislation, and the trend continued afterward. This followed a long period of rising homicide rates from the '60s to the early '70s. Homicide rates in '62 without the gun control laws were much lower than they are even now after three decades on the decline. Basically, murder was never a big problem in Canada, it wasn't before the licensing system was put into place, and it wasn't in the decades after. Interestingly, if you plot the murder rates of Canada and the United States, their plots have similar shapes (the US has to use a different scale though) with homicides having a big increase from the early '70s to about the mid '90s, when both drop off again.

At a minimum, Heller requires that law abiding citizens be allowed to keep a pistol in their home. As a pistol is the number one firearm used in both homicides and suicides, any legislation that is consistent with Heller is not going to have much effect on gun homicides and suicides, even assuming gun control magically worked and no one could ever get an illegal weapon.

 

Horse****. Obama never said that. Guy is a ****ing idiot.

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trump pledges upon election 'to suspend immigration from areas of the world where there is proof of terrorism.' <a href="https://t.co/buU4kVVqCR">pic.twitter.com/buU4kVVqCR</a></p>&mdash; NBC Nightly News (@NBCNightlyNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/742425662238117888">June 13, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

He was clearly not mentally stable

You have to be kidding me if you think a handgun is nearly as effective in killing mass casualties as an assault rifle. The military doesn't go to a warzone with hand guns. They are called assault rifles for a reason. To say that a handgun can fire off as many rounds per minute as an assault rifle or that a knife would be capable of killing 50 people and wounding 53 others in a period of minutes is simply not a rational argument.

The facts are he bought an assault rifle legally. Where do people need assault rifles to defend their homes or themselves? It's absolute madness that these types of weapons are legal - there is no rationale for them to be legal to purchase. Just none.

The only people who should have these weapons are the military or police.

 

You should be ashamed of yourself. That "article" is simply a hit piece aimed at the President. He didn't say what that rag claims he said. Why you posted it can amount to one of two things - you are totally incurious and believe whatever nonsensical crap that comes your way, or you knew it was crap and still posted it. Either way, you look very foolish, and that's being kind.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-orlando-attacks-reaction/

This whole "not mentioning Radical Islam" is such a red herring for Trump. Sounds like an ATW argument.

 

Brilliant. I guess the only countries that will be able to immigrate now will be like Monaco, Iceland, and the Bahamas.

 

The next mass shooting would have to eclipse the current one, in terms of numbers.

Graphic from Washington Post:

 

To be fair, there are hand guns that can come close to the mass carnage that can be done with an assault rifle. An FN 5-7 with and extended clip or drum can raise hell in a setting like a night club.