Been saying Lebron isn't that guy since his rookie year. He's a stat sheet stuffer. Casual fan looks at the boxscore and says "Wow, Lebron had a triple double tonite. He did it himself". But all in all, this is HIS team he picked with his coach. He's maybe a top 10 GOAT player, but I don't want hear Lebron mentioned among the likes of MJ, Kobe or Hakeem again. After this year's finals this debate will finally be over
But but Lebron had a fully loaded team this year. 6 days later ..... Cavs suck, he doesn't have any help
If it were any other normal year, this Cavs team would be more than capable to win a ring. Unfortunately for them (and the rest of the league as well), they assembled this team right when the Warriors became a dynasty in the making. This has nothing to do with Lebron "choking" or assembling a bad roster. The Warriors are just too good.
I agree. However, that doesn't mean that the team the Cavs (Lebron) put together is bad. They need some re-tooling, no doubt, but building a title contender is very hard, and I think it's too critical to label the Cavs losing to better, and even historically good teams, as a choke or some massive disappointment.
GState won 73 game in the regular season and had an "okay playoff run to the finals." A LARGE amount of posters on this board said the Cavs would take the ring and they are fully healthy this time..... 2 games later, the Cavs suck and GState is just too loaded and amazing. WELL NO CRAP THEY ARE. The part that get's me is before the Finals started that was not the same message.
What does it mean to have a "bad" team? The Cavs are at best the 4th best team in the league, and if it wasn't for the Conference format, they would be looking at a 2nd round exit. Sure, they're not a Knicks-esque disaster, but they have basically mortgaged out the next 5-7 years, and all they have to show for is a pretender in a pathetic conference. Keep in mind that they have Love, Kyrie, and Shump locked up for the next 5 years, and have a payroll that is 10-12 mil more than the other top 3 teams in the league. This is what happens when you let a coddled superstar run every aspect of your franchise. You trade away number one picks, overpay one-dimensional scorers and role players, and fire good coaches in favor of Tyronn frickin' Lue. This is cosmic justice. Pure and simple.
LeBron didn't choke. Choking means he was about to win, or at least had a decent chance at it, and then end up losing. The whole Cavs roster are just overmatched. They are good, but a whole level below the Warriors and don't match up well with them, either.
Look, it's ok to say Lebron isn't "that guy" as a GM. Because he isn't. He's too busy building a team "around him" and ignoring little things like how it all fits together. That worked in Miami, because Riley held him in check, and because the talent of Wade and Bosh overcame. Wade and Bosh, two guys who as the main guy went FAR in the playoffs already. AND... it's DEFINITELY to say Lebron isn't "that guy" in the clutch. As supreme a talent as he is, he's not "THE BEST" at any SKILL. He's amazing and near the best in a lot of skills, which when you add in his size/athleticism makes him the complete package. But because he isn't the best shooter, or ballhandler, or post player, or FT shooter, etc... when it comes down to crunch time, you can't be sure if his skills will be there, or not. And to be fair to him, they often are. But they also aren't... And to be really fair, I feel the EXACT same way about Kobe. His clutchness has been vastly overrated. He hit some big, clutch shots, but, LIKE LEBRON, also missed a bunch and also made a bunch of stupid decisions. Why? Because, similarly, he wasn't the best shooter, or the absolute best ballhandler, etc. Look at Steph. Size doesn't matter. He is THE BEST ballhandler in the NBA. He is THE BEST shooter, maybe ever. That's why its so consistent. Because he dominates at that skill and just does it over and over. Look at MJ. He was THE BEST post guard, maybe ever. He may have been the second best post player in the league in the mid 90s. He was THE BEST finisher at the rim. He was pretty close to THE BEST mid range guard/wing in the NBA. Look at Hakeem. He was THE BEST post player, bar none. Look at Tim and the Spurs. He is THE BEST, MOST FUNDAMENTAL player of his generation. Never makes mistakes. When you can do something at that level, and do it consistently, you can be clutch. When it's pretty good, but can come and go, and you rely on size, speed and athleticism more than anything else, its hard to be consistently clutch. ... ANYWAY ... Even saying that, its completely unfair to say Lebron is a stat-stuffer, or imply he doesn't impact winning as much as his stats imply. I know there were a lot that thought this was Cleveland's real year. Not me. That's ludicrous. I don't know what people were thinking. An east that still sucks. A historic GSW team. To me, at best, the Cavs were 4th in the league. OKC/Spurs ahead. When healthy, I'd put the Clippers ahead, too. It's just what it is. Lebron could have the series to end all series, and the Cavs still would lose. They'd lose in 7, not on the path to getting swept, as they are, since Lebron has underperformed, but there's just no scenario where the Cavs are a better team than GSW. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cavs get swept. I'm not sure what that says about Lebron, if anything. It sounds backwards, and would never happen, but Lebron would be well-served by joining a Western Conference team. But it will never happen.
This is my point. They assembled a team that is a sure-fire bet to win the Eastern Conference, and in a normal NBA year they would have a great chance at winning a title, but also were assembled at the wrong time. They're unfortunately outmatched against historically good teams in the West. A lot of building a contender is about luck, and unfortunately for the Cavs they just got unlucky. You can't chastise them for not being historic, because they requires just about everything to go right. I'm sure there's a few moves they'd like to go back and change, and they're probably looking at some re-tooling this offseason, but the Cavs losing this series has pretty much zero to do with "coddling" Lebron. They're just running into a buzz saw.
That "running into a buzz saw" argument simply doesn't work when you're barely a top 5 team in the league (I take healthy Clips over the Cavs). If they were a serious contender and a top 2 team, but HAPPENED to run into the historic Warriors, then that may be a salient point. Unfortunately, that's not what happened at all. Instead, they have the BIGGEST payroll in NBA history, under which many of the moves were made either under Lebron's direct instruction or indirectly to appease him. Put another way, the Cavs are paying $108 mil this year, and the Warriors are paying $93 million. They outbid themselves in order to overpay role players. They traded away Wiggins for no reason whatsoever, since that same trade would have been there last summer. Ultimately, it's not Lebron's fault. He is what he is. But, the Cavs are one of the worst managed teams in all of sports, and like I said, it's cosmic justice they are getting humiliated.
Lebron the GM should fire himself. Nope, tooo late, the Cavs stuck with Love, Thompson and Shump, etc now. Maybe a Decision 3 is coming. Lebron will take his talent to south beach again?
Wade and company should take their talents to Cleveland. It's a wonderful city with two buildings and good industrial scenery. And they're not Detroit.
LeBron is a poor GM because he values names over skillset and fit. He liked the idea of Irving and Love because they're "stars" and, in his mind, you win with stars. Great, but you win with two-way stars (or, if your stars aren't all two-way players, then with a very well-built support staff that can do the heavy defensive lifting). It didn't apparently occur to James that Irving and Love would give away half or more of their offensive value on the defensive end. Arguably, in this series, they're giving away much more than their offensive value on the defensive end. There's also the problem that James and Irving both need to be ball dominant and that Love as just a spot-up shooter and not a hub is a gigantic waste of a max deal, especially considering he doesn't play defense.
I think we ask this every year he's in the Finals. LeBron James's supporting casts: Are current Cavs his worst Finals squad?
The fact that Tristan Thompson was able to sign a 5 yr(s) / $82,000,000 contract was 110% Lebron James fault. lol he started 34 of 82 games this year and averaged 7.8 ppg.
Yea but Kobe always kept the Lakers close. If the Lakers got down you KNEW at some point Kobe would go crazy and put his team on his back. Kobe wasn't afraid to single handedly carry the team when they weren't playing good. Lebron doesn't have it. He'll stuff the stat sheet every nite. But Lebron can't give you 45-50 by himself like most GOAT players could. Maybe he's scared of the negative press idk. But I DO KNOW he's never been top 5 GOAT
exactly. cleveland has a team that could easily win a title from a historical perspective. while i would favor san antonio, they don't match up poorly with SA and could beat them in a 7 game series. same with OKC, and they might even be favored against them given their performance against them this year and lebron's general success against them over the years. it's just that GS is a historically great team and one that cleveland doesn't have the right personnel for. this board was strangely bullish on cleveland. i think the poll was like 59/41 gsw while vegas was more like 67/33 and espn's power index was 75/25. i would've put it at like 95/5 based on the poor matchup, although i didn't expect cleveland's offense to do worse than it's defense.
