Hillary afraid of Bernie and Trump. LOL! So presidential. "You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you ********er? You can't take this, how can you take the abuse you get on a sit? You don't like it, leave." [rQUOTEr]Sanders may debate Trump, not Clinton, before California contest An unconventional debate between a billionaire Republican and a democratic socialist is shaping up in California after presidential candidates Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders expressed an interest in squaring off against each other. Sanders, a U.S. senator from Vermont, is still in a primary battle against Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton, while Trump effectively clinched the Republican Party's nomination earlier this month when his two remaining rivals dropped out. In an appearance on ABC's "Jimmy Kimmel Live" late Wednesday, Trump said he was willing to participate in such an event against Sanders. ... Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist who was elected to Congress as an independent and has made economic equality a keystone of his campaign, had first challenged Clinton to a California debate. He said he was disappointed when the former secretary of state declined. [/rQUOTEr]
Please make this happen. This will be epic. Hillary has to be wondering what the hell is going on. Every calculated move she makes is the wrong move. I bet Hillary wishes she had just accepted the debate against Bernie at this point.
Bernie loves to speak to a lot of the ordinary working folks who have been bamboozled by Fox and Rush to vote against their own economic interests and who would never vote for socially liberal corporate Dems like Hillary or Obama --ok there in an additional reason why some would never vote for Obama. These ordinary working folks in Vermont are an important part of the coalition that has allowed Bernie to beat such notables as the richest man in Vermont as well as the typical corporate type Democratic pols throughout the years. These voters in a small state in which the voters actually know the candidates have finally realized who is in their real interest and who is honest with no interest in using his office for personal gain. Needless to say Hillary does not look too good backing out on a public promise she made to have a May debate in California. with Bernie. Many of her most ardent supporters do not expect anything better from her. I know, Trump would do this, too, but still some folks care about things like this.
Except that while Sanders has had very large raucous rallies Clinton has conducted more face to face meetings with voters and retail politics. If you look at campaign spending by the candidates Sanders has run more of a media intensive campaign relying on rallies and advertising versus Clinton who has dealt more directly with voters. Even ones that don't support her. This is a no win situation for Clinton. She has actually nothing to gain and a lot to lose from a debate with Sanders now. Even if she loses CA she still likely wins the nomination outright in NJ. As I said though in the other thread this is a very clever move by Trump and while it might benefit Sanders in the short run it will help Trump far more.
It is a very smart move by both of them, it relegates Hilary to second class act. I'm all for that, Bernie may be a crazy old man with ideas not based in reality but at least he isn't Hilary.
I disagree with your take on this. The debate could totally help Clinton. Often in political debates (we saw it in the Republican primary debates) people don't like either person on the stage. They hope for someone who isn't there. Clinton can look good by not being there. During the Republican primary debates people started thinking how nice Paul Ryan would be as a candidate, largely because he seemed reasonable and wasn't tarnished by the crap that was happening during those debates. It is possible Hillary could gain also. Viewers would see two people on stage, and decide they both seem unreasonable, if only they could have Hillary up there and here what she has to say about the issues. That kind of thing helps Hillary. Trump could also be badly hurt in this debate. He won't be hurt amongst his supporters. That's true no matter what. But people who are on the fence because they can't stand Hillary, and feel they don't enough about Trump, may see him shown up, and others may feel that Trump is bad enough that they'll vote third party/write-in/or not at all. I'm not saying those things will happen, but they are definite possibilities.
What you're saying is possible as far as helping Clinton but I see it otherwise: FOX will pull its punches and Trump will treat Sanders as a decent but misguided soul and tell Bernie several times that if he really believes what he believes then he should run as an independent. Which Bernie likely won't. Even if he's sorely tempted, he'd have to take the lesser of two evils; what's the point of a scorched earth policy that puts Trump in the White House and completely destroys his own political career, because he'd be ostracized in the party that he joined JUST to get this chance at the White House. Of course, on the other hand, Bernie would look better in a debate setting with Trump and muddy the waters a bit. He still won't get the nomination but he'll further hurt Clinton. Win-win for Trump, and Sanders continues proving that he doesn't care about money, because he's working for Trump for free. As if I couldn't stand Sanders before. Oh dear God, dude.
If Trump and Bernie were smart they would find common ground (the establishment) and have a townhall type discussion with the issues and hurdles they faced. Trump can talk about the issues he faced and how yet he was able to bring everything together with the help of the voters. Sanders can talk about his continuing difficulties and firmly establish Hilary as part of the establishment. She won't be there to deny it.
She hasn't wont jack **** yet while he's won his fair share and you want him to step aside early? You entitled Clintonistas make me sick. Bernie should show loyalty to his millions of supporters and see it out. Once he is out, his supporters can decide what they will do. If Hilary has(or can) earned their trust the good on her. If they don't vote at all or worse vote Trump, again that's on her alone. This is 'MERICA, no royal family entitlements here. Earn your way, even if it's hard. You get more respect that way.
What you said is also a possibility. There's no way to know for sure. The one problem I have with your prediction will be if Sanders attacks Trump, then Trump will lose it like he always does and start trying to attack back, usually with insults that are at best only slightly related to any kind of issue. Of course Trump may start out that way, anyway. I have no idea, and I'm not really predicting one outcome over the other. The only thing I disagree with is that it's a losing situation for Hillary no matter what. It doesn't automatically have to be that way.
I agree. Which doesn't bode well for her campaign going forward, fwiw. Or have the debate, and if Hillary doesn't show, just have it be Bernie. They don't need Hillary's consent, or even participation...and if they did this, she would show, because she'd look terrible if she didn't.
To follow up on Roxtxia's post I think this depends on how Trump and Sanders conduct themselves in the debate. If Trump gets very negative and nasty with Sanders and Sanders does back it will hurt them and could make Clinton look reasonable as the person not there. I don't think Trump though is quite that dumb and he probably realizes that this is the perfect chance for his pivot while hurting Clinton. Trump has called Sanders "Crazy Bernie" but in general he's still treated Sanders with kid gloves. He barely mentions Sanders in his stump speech and a few times he's even praised Sanders. There is very little for Trump to gain by actually attacking Sanders. Sanders has something to gain by debating Trump by appearing like he can carry the Democratic flag against the GOP nominee. More than that it undercuts Clinton's impression of already being the Democratic nominee by appearing as an equal on stage with the GOP nominee. Where things get dangerous is if he falls into the same trap as Jeb Bush or Rubio and tries to slug it out with Trump. Unless Trump can't control himself and makes this debate about going after Crazy Bernie I don't think that will happen.
enemy of my enemy is my friend. they have to agree to make it a nice discussion to destroy her. then they can go after each other later. surely both camps know that.
Of course they realize that. Trump has realized that by being more presidential once he had the nomination wrapped up it would only help him in the general. But despite knowing that, and despite his advisors saying that he would do that, Trump hasn't seemed to have enough discipline and self-control to manage to perform that pivot even though he is smart enough to know that it would help him. It's certainly no guarantee that Trump will be out of control, but the simple fact that he understands that it's in his best interest to treat Bernie with civility doesn't mean he automatically will either.
Trump is an unusual candidate and this is an unusual circumstance. Trump's candidacy is heavily based on personality and entertainment value. If he comes off as presidential, which in his own words is boring, it might hurt his support. Even with that though Trump must realize how much he has to gain from this to hurt Clinton. I expect him to throw out a few zingers but I don't expect this debate to digress into a discussion about the sizes of the candidates body parts.
I would think Hillary would be better off in a meet the press like debate rather than some daily show event attended by trained monkeys hooting and hollering at every zing, slam or humdingers. Like Greek theater, it's occasionally peppered with planted, yet genuine sob stories that touches deep as a pulse of what's wrong with America. She should play the responsible wonk card and build a narrative of softening against Bernice's passion rather maintaining her Stepford-like cool that chills every American as hollow and elitist, but to her, projects being calm, in control, and powerful from a second wave feminists POV. That it appears like she's not listening to reason or his movement's grievances because "she already knows the things" or is patronizingly "realistic" to Bernice's solutions will only hurt her even if she adjusts because the electorate and media will play the story that she's triangulating. If however, she and Bernie go over a series of heart to hearts, it dispels many of Bernice's emotional campaign ploys, while showing a window of what degree her authenticity is. Hillary, desperate not to show her hand on her inner world, is being savaged over it time after time that we have entire generations refusing to give her the benefit of that doubt and expecting the worse from her in ethics, morality, intention, and vision.
Bernie's primary success has been entirely propped up by his caucus wins, the most undemocratic process in the entire system where Bernie's thugs intimidate and shout others into voting with them. In actual primaries, he couldn't even nab any major wins in places with demographics that allegedly overwhelmingly support him, not to mention how miserable he did in actual key swing states. If you think Hillary hasn't won jack, then Bernie might as well be considered nonviable in comparison.
Trump bailed. No one-on-one debate for Bernie with The Donald. He says he realized that it was beneath him to debate the candidate who came in second. http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/27/politics/trump-says-he-will-not-debate-sanders/index.html
