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Immigration and Jobs

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Mar 7, 2016.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    This.

    As insensitive as it sounds, on the whole I would wager those born into wealth and educated family are likely to do quite well in the United States. If the top 1% of a population group wants to move to the USA I have no real issue with it.... Be they German or Chinese or Kenyan.
     
  2. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    You're not good at answering questions directly.
     
  3. Northside Storm

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    I'll make it even EASIER for you. 80%.
     
  4. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    Still has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

    So we're going to act like RDBMS's no longer play a critical role for many organizations, researchers, NASA, etc? News to me. You should tell Larry Ellison (Oracle) and Bill Gates (MSSQLS) about this trend.

    Also, I feel you are trying too hard to lead this topic toward a discussion about the (consumer/commercial) software industry. Remember, Disney is not a "technology" company. Not every company with an IT staff or IT needs is a "technology" company.

    Please note that many small- to large-sized corporations utilize software technology and have corresponding consultants/contractors/employees assigned towards expediting that software technology. The companies benefiting the most from H1B's are IT consulting firms like InfoSys, IBM, and Tata, and the companies they do business with.

    I doubt transferring sponsors under H1B is as easy as accepting a job offer (by a non-H1B visa holder). Also, I would like to see your source for the 99% figure before commenting further.

    You made an off-topic comment and received a reply to it. Not sure what is more strange: that you don't believe three centuries of slavery (of sub-Saharan Africans) existed in the New World, or that you don't think an open defecation rate of 50% is problematic. How many more lines of code must that H1B holder write in order for the 2 million open-defecating residents of New Dehli to stop defecating in the open?
     
  5. Northside Storm

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    Immigration and Jobs

    Microsoft is making its biggest bets on the cloud under Satya (Bill has retired like 32840234 years ago dude), Oracle is a dead man walking, and people still use Fortran, that doesn't mean jack s**t.

    Walmart has an in-house data science team. They're seven people dealing with every transaction that has passed through Walmart. That's all you need when you have Hadoop, EC2, and all of the rest.

    This isn't like, oh, the shiny startups are disrupting everything: corporate America has taken everything I just said and is implementing it. It doesn't matter how many IT support guest workers you hire or don't when your servers live in Amazon centers.

    One of my immigration attorneys. Want their website?

    I'm not sure what is strange--that you originally posed the question and now deem it "off-topic", or that you can't seem to understand that denying people opportunities excaberates problems in both the home and host country through lost potential.

    Want to be "on-topic"? Start talking about the lost jobs that denying H1-B visas would cause.
     
  6. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    I don't know who the National Federation of Independent Business is, but they seem to make a clear, sensible, and logical point right here:

    Under Northside's economic plan we would allow millions more people into the country to combat this unwanted maleficent effect.
     
  7. Northside Storm

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    Millions of more people who would create that effect--in case you hadn't bothered to remember that immigrants are twice as likely as natives to found companies and had a near-null effect on wages.
     
  8. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    You keep saying this but you don't provide the data.

    During the plagues of Europe, the dwindling labor supply allowed those peasants who survived to bargain for better wages, rents, and conditions.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=3Is3mtuIZ9cC&pg=PA25&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false
     
  9. Northside Storm

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    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...likely-as-natives-to-start-businesses/427365/

    http://www.fastcompany.com/3015616/...out-whos-really-starting-companies-in-america

    http://www.globaldetroit.com/why-immigrants-matter/

    I've seen you facepalm into the data on climate change though, so I don't expect your USB security mind to acknowledge this. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Pretty natural that immigrant start new business at a higher rate than non-immigrant. They are simply a more motivated group. Illegal or not, it's take motivation to move your a$$ and start something. But this doesn't really mean anything. For new local businesses, remove immigrants and there are still plenty of folks from the less motivated group (locals) to start the same local businesses.

    Where it counts is in new startups that compete globally. You want the best and the US shouldn't slow down or cut off access to the most skilled and educated. That's protecting your local labor force at a reduced chance of growth. Not a formula for long term success.

    Instead of isolation, focus on bringing up the local population education and skills level. If you can be very successful at this, I'm sure everyone would be happy and more than happy to "import" low skilled worker to do jobs that non of the skilled workers want.

    One of the worst thing to do is to effectively limit education and skill development to a segment of the local population while at the same time isolating the US from accessing skilled workers - that's an accelerated path toward failure.
     
  11. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    I don't see any data, just articles that link to articles that do not link to data. What does this have to do with climate change?
     
  12. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    As far as starting a business, I started a business two years ago. Not exactly difficult. Nor did it take a great deal of motivation.

    When it comes to local population education, I wonder if H1B visas make it easier to avoid addressing any shortcomings in the US education system.
     
  13. Northside Storm

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    I expect not if all you're concerned about is USB security.

    If by shortcomings, you mean the number of people who choose to forgo a world-class education in STEM and have every advantage to do so but then choose not to, I don't know.
     
  14. Northside Storm

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    Somehow I knew you would worm your way here:

    Start here:

    http://www.kauffman.org/what-we-do/...ic-case-for-welcoming-immigrant-entrepreneurs

    http://www.kauffman.org/~/media/kau...rant_entrepreneurs_updated_september_2015.pdf

    For your specific data point:

    http://www.kauffman.org/microsites/...tional?Demographic=Nativity&Report=MainStreet

    thanks.
     
    #94 Northside Storm, May 17, 2016
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
  15. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    These data are not too specific but I'll continue to take a look at it. And I hate to break it to you, but Sergey Brin was not an H1B visa holder.
     
  16. Northside Storm

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    "These data are not too specific". :rolleyes:

    Yann Lecun was, and of course, you wouldn't know who he was because you're too busy minding the shop on USB security.

    "As a naturalized American citizen who initially moved to the US on a work visa to be a scientist at AT&T Bell Laboratories, and as a Facebook employee, I am profoundly offended by such an ignorant rant.

    On behalf of all highly-educated foreign-born scientists, engineers, and academics who have move to the US and contributed greatly to economic expansion, I demand an apology."

    https://www.facebook.com/yann.lecun/posts/10152260382327143
     
  17. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    I like to be able to facet my data - aggregate it, plot it, and think about it. Not sure what they taught you in Canada but that's what I was taught here in the US.

    Btw, what qualifies you to talk down to others on the subject of science and technology? Are you a C++ programmer?
     
  18. Northside Storm

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    Yeah, well, if you want the source data to do that, you'll find it if you look hard enough. Or are you going to ask me to export it in CSV for you? :rolleyes:

    What qualifies me? I teach programming and the basics of data science to tens of thousands of people. I built a tool that automated the analysis of $700m in pipeline sales for a pharmaceutical, then open-sourced it. It's still in use to this day. I constantly collaborate with people who've built some of the programming libraries that are foundational to modern Python and Javascript apps. I've given talks on how to choose your first programming language to learn.

    I don't think any of that actually qualifies me do much of s**t, but you're the one who asked. If you don't like the fire, stay out of the kitchen, but I get the handle that you give as much as you take.

    "Not sure what they taught you in Canada but that's what I was taught here in the US."

    ain't no thing brotha. Not asking for your qualifications because I frankly don't care.
     
  19. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    So you're not a programmer?
     
  20. Northside Storm

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    I've built things in production that are used by tens of thousands of people.

    ...

    no, no, I'm not a programmer. :rolleyes:

    Python with a deep affinity for Pandas, React.js now and a few Meteor apps. I've worked with Django, Flask (though work is a strong word with Flask), and Rails/HAML. Trying to learn Scala/Spark and the whole distributed computing route next because I'm starting to touch really massive datasets.

    Did you learn a whole bunch of computer science buzzwords in the 1980s and decide to use them now? Stay current at least, Mr. USB.
     
    #100 Northside Storm, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016

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