University Of Toronto Gender-Neutral Bathrooms Reduced After Voyeurism Reports

It's really not. The restrooms and locker rooms are for members of one sex only, if you are not of that sex, you don't belong. If you can make it look like you are of that sex closely enough and you don't do anything stupid, then no one will care that you are using the wrong one and really that's how it's always been. If you are very obviously male and you are hanging out in a women's locker room with your dick out, you'll probably cause a problem.....even if you think you are a woman.

That said, this really is only an issue because gay marriage was made legal (rightfully so) and LGBT groups were set to lose a ton of funds now that they didn't have a legit civil rights issue to protest. They managed to trump this non-issue up because it was the closest to a legitimate issue they could find. When they pushed it, other groups pushed back and now they are getting their funds to fight for this as if it's a legitimate cause.

 

Do you also consider homosexuality a mental illness? If not, I'm curious on what basis you make the distinction?

 

No, I don't, homosexuality is a sexual preference, not a mental illness. Transexualism (ICD-10) or Gender Dysphoria (DSM-5) are mental illnesses. The distinction is that one is a sexual preference, the other is a dissociative disorder.

 

Another distinction is that only assholes make it a point to call trans people mentally ill. Mental illness suggests that those people need medical help. Whatever they are is neither here nor there, well, unless you want to be an *******.

 

Based on what data? Research shows it's genetically based. It's considered draconian these days by the mental health profession to label transsxual a mental illness. So neither science nor the field of psychology agrees with you. Does that not give you pause?

So you want a transgender man to use the woman's bathroom? Do you understand the problem that will cause for everyone?

 

OK. According to WebMD, Gender Dysphoria isn't a mental illness either:

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/gender-dysphoria

[rquoter]
Feeling that your body does not reflect your true gender can cause severe distress, anxiety, and depression. "Dysphoria" is a feeling of dissatisfaction, anxiety, and restlessness. With gender dysphoria, the discomfort with your male or female body can be so intense that it can interfere with the way you function in normal life, for instance at school or work or during social activities.

Gender dysphoria used to be called “gender identity disorder.” But the mismatch between body and internal sense of gender is not a mental illness. Instead, what need to be addressed are the stress, anxiety, and depression that go along with it.

...
[/rquoter]

Based on this, its not the "gender dysphoria" that's the problem, but rather the stress, anxiety, and depression that can go along with it -- particularly (as I see it) if they're not in an environment where people are willing to accept them for who they are.

If you know of differing opinions on this from mental health experts that you can point me towards, that would be appreciated.

 

LOL ah, webmd.....well then let's ignore the ICD-10 and DSM-5 because webmd has spoken. Gender Dysphoria is a personality disorder, if you don't want to consider that a mental illness, fine I guess, but it doesn't change anything. It's really ignoring substance in order to argue semantics.

Call it a mental disorder, call it a mental illness, it really makes no difference.

 

WebMD. Ignore the problem and treat the symptom.

 

Well there's not really much you can do about a personality disorder, so yeah, since there's nothing you can do to treat the "problem" you do your best to make them at ease with their delusions. That said, you can't expect the entire world to play along with their delusions even though that's the polite thing to do.

 

DSM-5 doesn't refer to it as a "disorder' either. They quite explicitly say its not a disorder. Not sure what "ICD-10" says.

Its neither a disorder nor an illness. No more so than being gay (though there are plenty of people who'd argue otherwise wrt homesexuality, though its good to know not one of them in at least that case). Its just how some people are. Its only a problem when other people decide they need to look down on them, treat them like freaks, and make them feel like they should be ashamed of themselves.

Substance is what I care about. Its not the "words" we use, necessarily, but the very clear connotation that comes with them and how that leads people to discriminate or abuse others that matter. You called it "mental illness". Someone else called them confused. All of this is a way to justify not taking their concerns seriously and the message is clear enough -- they're not right in the head, after all, so let's not coddle them in their weirdo complex. Its the same sort of argument people used (and still use) against gay men and women. It absolutely matters -- its the root of the problem, I'd say.

 

The guy is an uninformed, bigoted prick and I have him on ignore because of his ignorance and bigotry. I've avoided this thread just so I wouldn't get pissed off from reading it. Just my luck that I take a look and there's the *******, still being an *******.

Oh, and it isn't mental illness. Want an example of mental illness? The ******* you mentioned fits the description.

 

LOL the DSM literally stands for "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders", if it wasn't a disorder why would it be in that manual?

Look, it's okay if you can't grasp the difference between a sexual preference and a dissociative disorder. Trannies shouldn't be any more embarrassed about their disorder than those who suffer from any other personality disorder. It's just something they have to deal with.

Of course getting back to what matters, if people want to cater to their delusions, that's their right. If they don't want to cater to their delusions, that's also their right. There's really no need for legislation here because it's not even an issue, it's just something drummed up so that LGBT groups can push for continued funding now that their legitimate civil rights issue is settled in their favor.

 

I haven't seen a poster be consistently wrong across all forums as much as Bobby has.

 

One of the criterias in DSM V's classification is that the person has to experience significant distress and functional impairment from their gender conflict. For example, a guy dressing up as a woman but not being bothered by it at all would probably not be considered gender dysphoria. But it does go on to say that the people who fall under this category are called "transgender."


To the people citing DSM-V etc, just remember that it is subjective criteria and manufactured by our perception (according to majority behavior) on how things should be.

Some of the criteria is just stupid, like have a minimum of "x" amount of days for at least 3 of the following symptoms while also having 2 minor symptoms for no longer or as long as "Y" days.

In short, don't put all your evidence into DSM, there is a reason DSM IV was out before, the nature of the diagnoses are very very very subjective.

 

LOL, now that's just hilarious, debate is over now that the CF equivalent of Pancakes McClain has chimed in on the issue.

 

what is pancakes McClain?

 

Let's take a look:

http://www.dsm5.org/documents/gender dysphoria fact sheet.pdf

The American Psychiatric Association, publisher of the DSM-5, states that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition."

I simply was/am trying to understand why you characterize it as mental illness, but I have to admit you're responses so far have left me unimpressed. If you could point to a single current authority on mental health to back you up, that would be helpful.

What is the delusion you're referring to? I understand delusion to mean there is a clear, known disconnect between one's perception and reality. If a man with a penis believed he didn't have a penis, that would be a delusion. Gender identification is a physiological process that generally conforms with one's physical sex, but in some cases does not. Not a delusion by any definition of the word I'm familiar with. And its not an "illness" either -- since that implies there is an impairment of some kind. Having an uncommon trait is not an impairment.

 

Yup. Just to add another 5 cents, I had a practice board question relating to that the other day.

 

I didn't, that's why I listed the ICD as well. The definitions in the DSM and the ICD are different, but they both suggest that Transexualism is a mental disorder. There's of course a lot of politics in play, but when the leading 2 psychiatric diagnostic manuals suggest something is a mental disorder....maybe it is?

This is a fun example of a discussion that can't really be intelligent due to emotion getting in the way....if you want to see evidence of that look no further than Deckard's whiny BS.

 

Local Houston sports writer who is always wrong with just everything he predicts. If McClain says something, you can assume it's not going to be correct....that's basically Mr. Clutch.