1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Trump 2016: Yes. We. Can.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Honey Bear, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    I know, I know.

    If you are a Trump supporter, there is no level of sleazy conduct, of dishonesty, or of flat-out, in-your-face corruption that will cause you to challenge or even question Donald Trump's behavior in any way. Your support is based on his personality alone.

    So if he changes his mind about giving that $6 million that he proclaimed to have raised for veterans - rather than attend a Republican debate on Fox News - to veterans organizations, you will no doubt be fine with that. Which it increasingly appears that Donald Trump has done.

    Is there no scumbaggery that is too low for this guy?

    We appear to have two presidential candidates in a race to the bottom in terms of ethics, decorum, dishonesty, manipulation, etc. In fact, if we even wanted to nominate two bigger sleazebags than these two, who in our country would possibly be up to the task?

    Someone help me out here. I am drawing a blank.
     
  2. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    3,755
    He got all of his enemies to post a picture of him with the text "I love Hispanics" attached. Seems pretty brilliant.
     
  3. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,975
    Likes Received:
    36,809
    There are only two.

    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,774
    Likes Received:
    41,189
    Right on! :-D-
     
  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Of course Trump is a pathologically lying, narcissistic blowhard who has manipulated the press, through his outrageous antics, into giving him $3 billion worth of free television coverage. This the the reason for his popularity and the reason why he has apparently won the Republican nomination.

    Of course he is not going to actually do the things he has promised, but let's just assume that he will for a minute, so we can consider the effect of his proposed actions on trade. As it turns out, the tariffs he has promised to levy, to the excitement and cheers of his adoring followers across the country, would cost households $6,000 per year through increased prices on goods, because as everyone surely knows, importers and businesses who manufacture products abroad must pass along ALL of the costs of their goods and services, including taxes and tariffs.

    Also, US exports would severely curtailed, which of course would result in huge job losses:

    Don't believe for a second that Donald Trump is unaware of the negative ramifications of these proposals. But Trump supporters don't want to think about that, or ask about that. They just wanted to blindly and mindlessly cheer their prospective fuhrer, Donald Trump.

    The upshot here is that Trump is a pathological liar and a narcissistic blowhard who cannot and will not follow through with any of this anyway, even if he does win.
     
  6. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,531
    Likes Received:
    14,262
    ^^ This election is all about populism.
     
  7. LosPollosHermanos

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    29,960
    Likes Received:
    13,973
    I know labels get thrown out too often, but I actually believe the guy is a pathologic liar and suffers from narcissist personality disorder. He could remain a liar (like most politicians) but at least be tactful in his approach. He lies, and appears to justify his lies, whines at the slightest bit of criticism, and throws low blow insults without a second thought. Would make a great dictator though.
     
  8. RocketsLegend

    RocketsLegend Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2015
    Messages:
    6,619
    Likes Received:
    1,529
    CNN has hard on for Trump. Hit piece after hit piece after hit piece and not to mention they've donated to Clinton's campaign before.
     
  9. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,965
    Likes Received:
    2,347
    Jim Webb for VP?

    Would be interesting
     
  10. Dream Sequence

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2000
    Messages:
    1,132
    Likes Received:
    623
    Trump has donated to Clinton too....
     
  11. RocketsLegend

    RocketsLegend Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2015
    Messages:
    6,619
    Likes Received:
    1,529
    He donated to a lot of politicians. He's great businessman. Also this shows that Clinton can be bought, all Trump has to do is show the receipts.
     
  12. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2000
    Messages:
    21,158
    Likes Received:
    18,144
    There is another...
    [​IMG]
     
  13. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    47,487
    Likes Received:
    19,589
  14. MoonDogg

    MoonDogg Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 1999
    Messages:
    5,167
    Likes Received:
    495
    .....and another.

    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Yep. I believe this too. I sincerely believe that these characterizations are not just a bunch of knee-jerk, indiscriminate name calling, as has become so popular with certain groups of people in our society these days.
     
  16. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,585
    Likes Received:
    1,888
    The thing is if Trump gets elected, the responsible thing to do legislatively will be to work with his staff to maintain the status quo with all of our fiscal, military and law enforcement agencies. You don't want to risk creating permanent administrative schisms due to an eight year problem.
     
  17. mr. 13 in 33

    mr. 13 in 33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,617
    Likes Received:
    636
  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,332
    Do you think it actually convinced any Hispanics to vote for him?
     
  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,332
    So much for the idea that Trump is self-funding his campaign.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...use-new-donations-pay-donald-trump-36-n573291

    Trump Campaign Could Use New Donations to Pay Donald Trump $36M for Loan
    by ARI MELBER

    After railing against a "corrupt" fundraising system in the Republican primaries, Donald Trump now says he will raise hundreds of millions of dollars to compete in the general election.

    But the new money Trump raises is available not only for future campaigning — it can also go directly into Trump's pocket, reimbursing him for his personal spending in the primaries.

    Trump aides say that option is not currently under discussion, NBC News has learned, but they also decline to rule out the possibility entirely.

    After this article was published Friday, Trump said he is ruling out the possibility, telling MSNBC, "I have absolutely no intention of paying myself back for the nearly $50 million dollars I have loaned to the campaign." Trump's estimate appears to include additional money he loaned the campaign that has yet to be filed with the FEC, and he told MNSBC all of the loans are "a contribution made in order to 'Make America Great Again.'"

    The Trump campaign has not actually converted the loans into a contribution, according to the FEC. After this article was published Friday, aides told msnbc they expect to make that formal change "in the near future."

    Legally, Trump has the option of recouping any or all of the money he spent on the primaries.

    That is because Trump almost never directly donates funds to his campaign. He has only spent about $317,000 of his own money outright.

    The rest of his personal spending is structured as a loan to the campaign, which now owes Trump $35.9 million.

    Those loans comprise about 75 percent of the campaign's total funds. Another 25 percent are from individual donations during the primaries. (The numbers are from the campaign's most recent filing, required under federal election law.)

    Loans and Payback
    The main reason candidates use loans to fund their campaigns, election law experts tell MSNBC, is to maintain an option to pay themselves back later.

    Former FEC general counsel Larry Noble believes that's the case with Trump.

    "He loaned himself money — as opposed to contributing it — with the idea that he would pay himself back," says Noble, who is now general counsel of the Campaign Legal Center.

    On the stump, Trump regularly invokes his choice to self-fund as crucial to his independence.

    "I'm self-funding my campaign," he said at an April rally in Rhode Island. "Let me tell you, the politicians will never do the job because they're bought and paid for, folks."

    Related: Trump's Longtime Butler Thinks Obama Should Be Hanged

    By that logic, Trump would presumably refuse outside money to pay back his loans. The same logic, however, would suggest he wouldn't take outside money in the general election — the path he is now on.

    This week, two campaign sources told NBC that Trump will aggressively raise funds for the general election, and the campaign expects voters understand he has to do "whatever it takes" to win.

    Asked about Trump's loans in March, during the primaries, campaign manager Corey Lewandowski told the A.P. "he is not going to repay himself."

    That was months before the campaign decided to take this outside money for the general election, however, opening up a vast new source of campaign funds.

    Now, as Trump adjusts his funding plans as the nominee, some campaign officials are striking a more circumspect note.

    Paul Manafort, Trump's convention manager, told MSNBC it is not the campaign's "intention right now" to use fundraising to pay back the loans.

    Asked if the option is off the table, Manafort says he has not discussed the idea with Trump, and the campaign's focus is on spending for the future.

    Another campaign aide tells MSNBC the possibility of Trump using donations to pay back his loans "is not being discussed or considered." The aide declined to say the option is definitively off the table.

    After this article was published Friday, Trump made his most unquivocal remarks on the issue since becoming the presumptive nominee, telling msnbc he has "absolutely no intention" of getting reimbursed for his loans, which he now estimates total close to $50 million.

    Trump's August Deadline
    Legally, Trump has until August to pay himself back with any funds raised, right before the party's convention.

    "He can't use general election money to repay his primary debt," said former FEC lawyer Ken Gross. "If he is going to repay it, he'll have to pay it back with contributions raised before the convention."

    That deadline is set by the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law. The law requires candidate loans be reimbursed within 20 days of an election, and the convention's nomination of a candidate is treated as the end of the primary election.

    Trump can legally tap any individual donations of up to $2,700, made in that window, to pay towards the loan. It would require over 13,000 donations, at that maximum rate, to retire the debt.

    Gross tells MSNBC that while "it's fairly common" for self-financing candidates to use loans, the main goal is preserving the "prospect of getting your money back at some point."

    Recent presidential candidates who used such loans, rather than direct donations, include Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney, Jon Huntsman and John Kerry.

    Clinton, Romney and Huntsman each swallowed the loans, converting them to donations.

    Kerry used campaign donations to pay himself back for a $6.4 million loan he made to his 2004 primary campaign.

    He took the money in the midst of his contest against President George W. Bush, the week before the Democratic convention, but faced little criticism, since the loans were made more out of desperation than an effort at self-funding.

    Bob Mutch, who wrote "Buying The Vote," a history of campaign finance rules, says Trump faces different expectations because he's made self-funding a centerpiece of his candidacy.

    "Now he won't be able to tell all of his supporters that he's self-funding," Mutch told MSNBC. "The self-funding idea was a great P.R. point that helped him in the primary, but it's something that's simply not available in the general."

    In his business career, Trump consistently stressed the importance of using investors' money instead of his own.

    In "The Art of the Deal," Trump advises readers to never "personally guarantee" investments. Indeed, in a rare public admission of a mistake, Trump told Tim O'Brien, author of "TrumpNation," that he risked bankruptcy by personally guaranteeing loans for his business ventures, saying "I didn't follow my own advice."

    Ultimately, if Trump did use new donations to pay himself back for his loans in the primaries, the move would come at a politically sensitive time, near this summer's party conventions.

    Using donations to pay off personal debts could also risk alienating new donors, who are motivated by supporting the Republican ticket in the fall, not settling the nominee's debts from the primary.

    It would also conflict with Trump's stated rationale for taking donations in the general election — to help Republicans in a wider effort.

    "I really won't be asking for money for myself," he told MSNBC's Morning Joe last Wednesday, when he became the presumptive nominee, "I'll be asking money for the party."
     
  20. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,485
    Likes Received:
    31,951
    It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that Trump is a fraud.....I mean the name Trump is pretty much synonymous for fraud.
     

Share This Page