Who are these blind homers again? I dont' think there is anyone saying he can't improve more and be a better leader. No one is saying he is perfect.
don't be a dick, dude.... I'm talking the whole general 1 guy dominating the touches scenario.... and as far as Harden's efficiency and # of shots... Count his turnovers as a shot and count every 2 free throws as a shot (since he's content merely to draw the foul in most instances) and you will get a diff picture... for example: if harden goes 10 of 16 for 30 points, it looks great... but if he had 3 turnovers and did the 'drive and flail' for 5 trips (10 fts) to the line.... that 30 points is essentially on 24 shots/possessions... james loves him some free throws! Points added to the stat line without counting as a fg attempt... Last year he was getting far more +1s on the fouls - this year he was content to play for the foul and take the 2 fts...
Not sure I follow you generally. Are you trying to say Harden isn't as good as people think he is? I get that you don't like our star player and that his defense is inconsistent and he turns the ball over too much. Both things are legit grips, though both are exacerbated by poor support cast. But Free throws help us win. Not sure why you think James getting to the line a lot is a bad thing.
I'm happy to take points wherever we can get them... I'm just not a fan of 'just try to draw the foul' rather than make the bucket... I'd rather we tried to finish and make it a +1 scenario.. Anytime you are depending on the refs to make a call you are putting things in their hands... There was just an article about Bron finishing through the contact (i think it was espn but im too lazy to look for it - lol). It seems to me, Hardens first couple years here he had more drives to the rim where he would get the whistle and would still throw it down... this year it seems he was happy to drive and as soon as contact was made he would throw his hands up to embellish the contact to get the fts and not really try to finish at the rim.... Additionally, I do think free throws are a great way to pump up ones stats without risking a hit to overall fg %.... I think most fans/people look at points scored and then look at number of shots it took to get those points... without really factoring in that the fts were essentially a possession that went toward that point total...
Ok, so you've now answered the first question...you obviously didn't see Iverson play. Iverson was a FT machine. He was routinely right at 10 ft per game. Iverson was also a high turnover guy too. Count any category you like but do it for both guys and Iverson is incredibly inefficient and Harden is one of the most efficient players in history. Interesting that you're trying to count Harden's turnovers as shots though. That makes a lot of sense. Do you not understand the difference between a pass or a shot? I guess you've now answered the 2nd question too.
Defense? Lack of leadership? Pounding the ball into the sand causing his teamates to get frustrated and not compete? IIRC you loved Steve Francis, I am not surprised that the BS one man army on offense is ok with you again, but it will NEVER WIN! DD
Do you also compare Steph Curry, Chris Paul and Kyle Lowry with Allen Iverson? 2015-2016 Touches Per Game ------------------------------------ John Wall 98.7 Rajon Rondo 95.0 Kyle Lowry 91.4 Kemba Walker 91.1 Deron Williams 90.3 Damian Lillard 89.0 Russell Westbrook 88.8 Chris Paul 87.5 Eric Bledsoe 86.8 Stephen Curry 85.9 Blake Griffin 85.8 Isaiah Thomas 85.3 James Harden 85.1 I apologize for quoting facts, I know you don't care for them.
Here you go again. Spewing the same line that you know isn't true. Do you really believe Harden dribbles the ball more than most any other primary ball handler? Or that he's holding the ball more than most other primary ball handlers. The NBA stats show that isn't true and it's been pointed out to you multiple times but you're not going to let the facts get in the way.
I always love the "teammates are frustrated and don't try" because of Harden, as if they weren't running the exact same "offense" last year.
Do you realize that nobody in the league even averages a single and1 per game? So your huge issue is something that happens at best less than once per game. Way to focus on the important stuff. The FT for a guy like Harden is equivalent to 86% FG%. No other shots even come close to that kind of efficiency. Maybe that's why Harden tries to rack up FTs... he understands math.
man, who pissed your Wheaties? U are just a douche... there's a difference between touching the ball (as you work it around the perimeter) and holding it for 10-20 seconds... I'm done replying to you... you have no interest in a civil discussion... you are just a meanspirited douche - so I'm done with you....
Actually they don't the only stat you seem to keep bringing up is Usage rate and that is one SERIOUSLY flawed stat - as holding the ball for 21 seconds passing it off to a teamate for a heave is not counted. And yes, I contend that Harden holds the damned ball too much, and so does Westbrook - and as a result their teamates get frustrated and don't play as hard as they don't feel involved in the offense. If you have ever played with a ball hog, you would know exactly what that feels like and how spirit crushing it can be especially if that same player doesn't even TRY on defense. DD
more Twists and contortions than . . .. If you add the number of wraps on his ankles plus the thickness of his laces and then multiple by the square root of pi . . .you will see he sucks!!! people SSSTTTTRRRRREEETTTCHHHING . . . . Rocket River
Again . . . JBB implemented a motion offense? Filled with the same caliber of players that Golden State, San Antonio and Cleveland has Cause basically. . .every other team is FRUSTRATED Basically .. .say . . HARDEN AIN'T ON GOLDEN STATE OR SAN ANTONIO and the Rockets are not those teams. . . and be done with it. . . . . Rocket River
Again I apologize for quoting facts. Why do you get offended when I quote facts? That should tell you something about your argument. Interesting that in your opinion the only person in this discussion that is backing up their arguments with facts is a douche. Maybe if you actually used some facts to backup your points then you'd be more convincing. At a minimum, don't say stupid stuff that's easily refuted by anyone that has internet access. You stated one guy dominating the touches so I quoted the touches. You want to talk about holding the ball? Ok, here's the average possession times per touch: 1. R. Jackson 5.99 2. D. Lillard 5.64 3. C. Paul 5.52 4. R. Westbrook 5.44 5. R. Rubio 5.30 6. T. Parker 5.16 7. K. Walker 5.15 8. M. Conley 4.97 9. C. Joseph 4.95 10.M. Chalmers 4.94 11.J. Larkin 4.94 12.J. Nelson 4.86 13.D. Sloan 4.85 14.R. Rondo 4.75 15.D. Schroeder 4.71 16.K. Irving 4.71 17.G. Dragic 4.69 18.J. Wall 4.69 19.JJ Barea 4.68 20.E. Mudiay 4.66 21.M. Carter-Williams 4.66 22.E. Payton 4.63 23.J. Teague 4.58 24.D. Russell 4.50 25. J Harden 4.41 If you'd like the total possession time per game then that's available too and it looks pretty much the same. The average number of dribbles is also available and they also look the same.
The only thing that I've quoted was usage? How about the average touches per game, average seconds per touch and average dribbles per touch? I've quoted each of those at least 3 times yet you keep referring to how much Harden dribbles or holds the ball. The number show that isn't true and yet you keep repeating it. Here's the number yet again: Avg Sec/touch ---------------- 1. R. Jackson 5.99 2. D. Lillard 5.64 3. C. Paul 5.52 4. R. Westbrook 5.44 5. R. Rubio 5.30 6. T. Parker 5.16 7. K. Walker 5.15 8. M. Conley 4.97 9. C. Joseph 4.95 10.M. Chalmers 4.94 11.J. Larkin 4.94 12.J. Nelson 4.86 13.D. Sloan 4.85 14.R. Rondo 4.75 15.D. Schroeder 4.71 16.K. Irving 4.71 17.G. Dragic 4.69 18.J. Wall 4.69 19.JJ Barea 4.68 20.E. Mudiay 4.66 21.M. Carter-Williams 4.66 22.E. Payton 4.63 23.J. Teague 4.58 24.D. Russell 4.50 25. J Harden 4.41 Avg dribbles per touch ------------------------- R. Jackson 6.15 C. Joseph 5.74 T. Parker 5.71 D. Lillard 5.59 R. Rubio 5.52 C. Paul 5.47 R. Westbrook 5.41 S. Larkin 5.35 K. Walker 5.31 M. Chalmers 5.12 JJ Barea 5.07 G. Dragic 5.00 M. Conley 4.99 D. Sloan 4.85 J. Teague 4.85 E. Payton 4.69 K. Irving 4.68 T. Burke 4.68 R. Rondo 4.67 I. Smith 4.57 D. Schroeder 4.55 E. Mudiay 4.46 J. Wall 4.43 I. Thomas 4.28 M.C. Williams 4.22 G. Hill 4.19 CJ McCollum 4.18 J. Holiday 4.15 M. Dellavedova 4.12 D. Collinson 4.10 D. Russell 4.09 D. Rose 4.05 D. Williams 3.99 K. Lowry 3.98 J. Harden 3.84
Gotta agree with you there. Reid quit the team for a year allegedly to get his act together. So was Reid being about Reid the reason he quit.
Just to be thorough, one more fact for you : In the '15-'16 season Harden was #4 in the league at drawing And 1s. This was the 2nd highest number of And1s that he's ever drawn in his career. His all time high was the 2012 season. So no he wasn't getting far more +1 on the fouls the prior year, he was getting less. You just need to go full on Costanza. Whatever you think, just say the opposite.
