Whoops. Sorry. I didn't realize that photo was that large. Clutchfans really needs one of those automatic resize set up for the bbs, and then you click the photo to get a window to pop up for the full size image. That'd be a lot better. Sorry again.
You are right, Whiteside is a risk. From what I've read/seen he seems to be a self-motivator so money shouldn't be an issue. But he definitely needs some sort of guidance to build/expand his game. Not totally sure he gets that here. For every stat you say he's not that good, there's another that says he has potential to be elite. Regardless, I think you have to recognize the climate we are in currently -- Every team has max contract space, which means max deals are gonna be handed out to just about everyone these next two years... We can be risk averse and sit these next two years out, be a mediocre team and Harden leaves first chance, or you can take some calculated risks and try to be top tier so harden stays. It's very simple I think. Not everyone can get Durant and Lebron. The rest of the teams are gonna have to take risks. More risk, more reward. Or you can get a few of average players like Affalo/Ariza/Ryan Anderson/etc for 15-20m and guarantee you are a mediocre playoff team. I'd take Whiteside and his potential for 20m any day of the week.
Ariza fills a need for them, since they will most likely lose Bazemore in the summer. Their salaries are the same. Talent-wise there is indeed a discrepancy, so Hawks will require some additional value. However, this shouldn't be too much. The Hawks made him available for a trade before the trade deadline this year and they did not get any great offers. Teague is up for renewal next summer and it makes no sense for the Hawks to keep him when they have Schroeder on the bench. They may be able to get more value than Ariza, but at least Ariza fills a need. I have him down as a plus defender, but this may be down to their scheme. He has not been considered a good shooter so far in his career, but this year he improved tremendously. Could be a one-off, or he just got better with age.
IMO, it is insane to think Ariza could get you Teague. But I do think Teague is interesting and like hearing about him.
I know the climate we are in. And the climate sucks for the Rockets 1) There aren't many max-worthy free agents (like 1-2 IMO - max worthy on a championship team) 2) There's a ton of suitors with plenty of cap room 3) There is nothing attractive about the Rockets other than the money we offer 4) We are under big pressure to contend with Harden's contract situation 5) The top of the league is historically good. I don't have an answer on how to succeed in this situation unless we lucked out with Durant. I do know the surest way to lengthy failure is to panic and make the wrong choice for a Max contract. Like I said, the mediocre set the market price. That is how Joe Johnson gets one of the biggest contracts in the league. If you are looking at signing a Max contract, you can't look at how they just compare to the other free agents, you have to see how they compare to all the players in the league. My current problems with giving Whiteside the max: 1) We already sunk a big amount into rim protection and rebounding, and that did Jack for us. The best lineup in the league doesn't even have a rim protector. Would Whiteside even be effective against Draymond? 2) Whiteside may be an elite rim protector, but is just that all you need on defense? He's only 22nd among centers in DRPM. Is something going on there that isn't captured by blocks and rebounds? How does he defend the pick and roll? How does he defend stretch bigs? Don't forget Yao against Utah. 3) Everything I've read points to the opposite about his self motivation. If he is so self motivated, why was he out of the league for 4 years when so physically gifted?
While I still think a rim protector is valuable (even if GSW doesn't have one) I agree with you that Whiteside is definitely not worth the max, but he'll probably get it. I also think that we have to focus more on the point and wing positions. Right now, only Harden and Beasley can create their own shots and we don't have any real floor spacing- nor are we good enough defensively to rely on those two alone. It be one thing if rim protection was the big hole in our defense, but it's not. Also, it's worth noting that until we have a coach and a decision as to what system will be in place, it's infinitely difficult to determine what players will "fit" since we're probably (hopefully) starting anew.
Batum gets 10 points and 2 assists in arguably the biggest game of his life. Is this guy even in the top half of the league at his position?
Horford/Capela Motie/Beasley/Smith Ariza/KJ Harden/Courtney Lee Conley/Bev/Goudelock Coach: Messina I dreamed a dream...:grin:
Yeah, maybe I should change my mind. If he's Top 15 at his position and Top 60 overall, it stands to reason he'd qualify for one of your three Maxes. Don't know how he compares with the 3rd best player on the contending teams though. Edit: I don't know, man. I'm thinking again. Is it a law that you have to have 3 Max players? If you Max out Batum as your #3, how much are you paying #4 and the rest of your rotation players. Seems to me if you are sinking all of your money in a Big Three model, then those three need to give you a significant advantage night in night out. And I don't like the idea that Batum does not seem to draw a double team.
I think you get diminishing returns the more maxes you get. Think Chris Bosh diminished role or Kevin Love being underwhelming, etc. There is only so much elite offense you can really use. It's like having Durant and Westbrook on the same team instead of Curry and Draymond. Durant/WB overlap quite a lot of skills (including creating for others) while Curry and Draymond don't really overlap at all (aside from creating for others.) It's whats gonna happen if the Warriors get Durant (they won't actually be a lot better.) They'll only be a lot better if Curry happens to go down. What you want out of one of your three best players are things that typical "superstars" don't normally do but also able to pick up scoring if one of the primary scoring options goes down. I mean seriously, are you judging if someone is worth a max by whether or not they can draw a double team??? Can Draymond Green draw a double team? (no) Is he worth a max contract? (yes). You can't build a Harden centric team with a bunch of defensive non-offense types surrounding him. It ends up being everyone spot up while Harden does his thing, basically a recipe for last season. So what does Batum bring to our team that is worthy of a max. He's a SF that can do a number of things we need, instead of 1 or two like Ariza. 1. Play good defense with consistent effort 2. Create off the bounce for others 3. Shoot from deep 4. Unselfish high IQ team player 5. Young You can't name many SFs in the league with a 5 tool skillset like that not named Lebron, Durant or Kawhi. Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally advocating we go after Batum. I'm just saying given the right circumstances (him being your third player) he's a good fit.
Wo, wo, wo - I was totally into your first paragraph, ready to give you rep. Then, in the second paragraph, it appears you're advocating handing out maxes to role players. If you're going all in for a Big Three, that means you are going to fill the rest of your roster with relative scrubs who pretty much rely on open jump shots for their offense. Obviously, that's not true of ALL teams - the Warriors are stacked. But typically, that's what you get on low priced players. So, if you're going for 3 Maxes and a bunch of bargain bin players, it is important those 3 Maxes can draw a double team. That also depends on what kind of offense you run of course.
Don't sign guys who need a strong leader to motivate them, because that's not Harden. Don't sign guys who sink to the lowest common denominator, either.
Horford is the last guy we should be paying. Aging, not a leader. Very average center, horrible rebounder.
I like this alot! My plan B. My plan A is switch Conley with Durant. And trade ariza for Fournier of you can
I think we have to differentiate between a max deal and a "supermax" deal. One is 25% of the cap, the supermax is 30%. 3 supermax deals, yes it's harder to build a team, but if you have 3 normal max deals, it's not terrible. And the cap goes up big again the year after this so, 25% this year is roughly 22 million which means as the cap goes up the % goes down. The following year that 22 million is 20% of the cap. What is Batum actually worth anyway? He's able to get 30% of the cap, but do you actually think teams will pay him that? 30% of 90 is like 27 million. Batum probably gets a 20 million dollar deal which isn't a "max deal" Whiteside on the other hand is due for about 22 million. Would you rather pay Whiteside 22 million or Horford 27 million?
this is my current Rockets team on NBA2k16. Trying to keep it real with 2016 and 17 best case outlook after free agency. pg. Bev/ Jarret Jack sg. Harden/McDaniel/Brewer sf. Harrison Barnes/Ariza pf. Horford/Beasley/Dmo/Herrall/Decker c. Pau Gasol /Capella
